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Author Topic: Does God exist?  (Read 87058 times)
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psiberzerker
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« Reply #1245 on: April 17, 2019, 11:56:20 AM »

Notre Dame de Paris burned in the first place, but because the cross wasn't damaged, let's call it a miracle?

Why did God allow the cathedral to burn, anyway?  This "Wood burns at 600°C" is the same bullshit they used to deny the Twin Towers.  (Sept11-01)  We used wood to smelt iron into steel in blast furnaces for centuries.

The cross was probably Gold Plated, if gold or lead gets hot enough to glow like that, it's molten.  I'm guessing bronze, or brass, but the important thing is that anyone that's willing to overlook the tragedy of the cathedral burning to find the "Miracle" inside is beyond reason.
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ToeinH2O
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« Reply #1246 on: June 12, 2019, 06:19:00 AM »


2.  I try not to lie to my Peruvian, but she asked me before marriage if I believe in God.  I rationalize my false answer of ‘yes’ because:
    a.  I hate the term atheist.  It sounds like I go around telling people not to believe.
    b.  I try to be respectful of all traditional religious beliefs.  The cultists are just stupid.
    c.  Unlike my president, I certainly believe in a power greater than myself.
I am however distrustful of those that take their religion (in what I view as) too seriously.  My Peruvian crosses herself frequently, but doesn’t overly dwell on her Catholicism.


I thought I would comment here Jed.

I don’t believe in a guy with a beard in the clouds.  I don’t believe in heaven or hell.  I do believe in a higher power, and an interconnectedness of all livings things.  We are made of star dust, and we share a life on this blue dot in an incomprehensibly vast universe.

So people ask, why do you go to church?  I think it is important to have a spiritual credo, a sense of right and wrong, and a commitment to love others and do more good than harm. The major religions all appeared in the last few moments of human existence, so choose your poison.  I abhor anyone who thinks they know the mind of God, speak for Him, or that they possess an ultimate truth.

I respect your right to believe anything you wish, but don’t tell me I must believe as you do, or attempt to impose your beliefs on others via political means.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 06:36:39 AM by ToeinH20 » Logged
MintJulie
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« Reply #1247 on: June 12, 2019, 02:28:20 PM »

I respect your right to believe anything you wish, but don’t tell me I must believe as you do, or attempt to impose your beliefs on others via political means.

I haven't read every post in this topic, but this was one of the best I have.
I especially love your last paragraph, that I quoted.
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Jed_
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« Reply #1248 on: June 12, 2019, 05:28:59 PM »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/politics/bs-md-cross-case-20190225-story,amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1QG1EP


I haven’t been following this case local to me very closely, but I did read something about it a while back that stuck with me.  Seems one of my fellow nonbelievers (or an atheist) said seeing the cross on his daily drives gave him anxiety, so it has to come down.  Now mind you the cross is a memorial to local residents that were killed in WWI and has no other religious symbolism other than being in the shape of a cross.  As a nonbeliever reading about this fellow nonbeliever having his ‘anxiety attacks’, it made me want to go find him and punch him in the mouth for being such an ass.

So I guess I’m saying people like him are why I can never identify as being an atheist.
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psiberzerker
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« Reply #1249 on: June 12, 2019, 05:41:48 PM »

Yeah, I differentiate between atheist, and anti-Christian.  You can tell pretty quickly by talking to them that all their proofs for the non-existance of God (The philosophical equivalent of dividing by 0) stem from debunking Christianity.  Quite othen Evangelical, and/or Catholic Christianity.  

"The Catholic Bible is wrong, ∴ God does not exist."  Okay, what about Buddha?  There's no evidence of Jesus, but Buddha was a real person, who said and did some real things, and that doesn't prove he was the re-incarnation of Brahma, but at the same time, pointing at Rome points away from EVERY OTHER CULTURE, and their beliefs.  

These same guys eventually fall back on calling me a "Knowitall."  Okay, I don't know it all, that's the basis for my Agnosticism.  Anyone who is so convinced of their conclusion, based on a complete, and utter lack of evidence, and narrows their thoughts to 1 town in 1 city in Italy has even less of a grasp on the scale of the Universe, and what it may or may not contain.

The Vatican is not the center of the universe.  Arguing as if it is, even as an Atheist, is just plain fucked up.
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joan1984
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« Reply #1250 on: June 12, 2019, 06:09:42 PM »

Some folks call you a "Knowitall"! Shocking...
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psiberzerker
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« Reply #1251 on: June 12, 2019, 06:18:58 PM »

Some folks call you a "Knowitall"! Shocking...

Not exactly news, but Agnosticism is an admission that I don't know.  In fact, it's from the Greek phrase "A Gnosti," which means unknowing.
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« Reply #1252 on: June 12, 2019, 06:47:37 PM »

Agnostic doesn’t fit me either.  I’m not particularly filled with any doubt on the subject of a god or gods, just don’t have any need to be a ‘crusader’ on the topic.
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MissBarbara
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« Reply #1253 on: June 12, 2019, 06:54:17 PM »


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/politics/bs-md-cross-case-20190225-story,amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1QG1EP


I haven’t been following this case local to me very closely, but I did read something about it a while back that stuck with me.  Seems one of my fellow nonbelievers (or an atheist) said seeing the cross on his daily drives gave him anxiety, so it has to come down.  Now mind you the cross is a memorial to local residents that were killed in WWI and has no other religious symbolism other than being in the shape of a cross.  As a nonbeliever reading about this fellow nonbeliever having his ‘anxiety attacks’, it made me want to go find him and punch him in the mouth for being such an ass.

So I guess I’m saying people like him are why I can never identify as being an atheist.


I'm a confirmed and old-school theist, but I would never believe this guy to be representative of all atheists, or even some atheists (or agnostics, or non-believers). He's an outlier, and a somewhat extreme outlier.

And most atheists of my acquaintance -- and I know several -- respect the beliefs of religious believers, and do not object to them. I hope someday most theists will view atheists the same way: respecting their views, and not getting all bent out of shape when they express them.




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« Reply #1254 on: June 12, 2019, 07:33:44 PM »

I respect your right to believe anything you wish, but don’t tell me I must believe as you do, or attempt to impose your beliefs on others via political means.

I haven't read every post in this topic, but this was one of the best I have.
I especially love your last paragraph, that I quoted.

I have always been inspired by The Fourteen Precepts of Engaged Buddhism by Nobel Peace Prize nominee Thich Nhat Hanh, a Buddhist monk.  The first three (I encourage you to google the rest) are on point, and state:

Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth.

Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others’ viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.

Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.

I think if everyone could adopt these doctrines, the world would be a much more peaceful place.
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psiberzerker
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« Reply #1255 on: June 12, 2019, 07:34:08 PM »

Yeah, that's what I ment.  #NotAllAtheists.  The worst of them are as bad as Theists, when it comes to bullying you for your beliefs, or lack thereof.  I get it from both of them, because they seem to take my lack of belief, either in a god, or the non-existence of god to be indecision.  They hope that they can reason with me, and bring me around to their camp.  "Maybe you just haven't met the right God yet?"

When I'm just waiting for Evidence.  Either way, I just can't draw a conclusion in a vaccum of evidence, and no thought experiemnt proves anything.  Honestly, both arguments sound like the passage on Babelfish from the Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing.' 'But, says Man, the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

 'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and vanishes in a puff of logic. 'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."

That's basically the crux of the Atheist Argument:  "I don't have any evidence either, so let me make something up, which sounds convincing."  Yeah, well that's how the Greeks went to war with Cheme (Now called Egypt) over whether the sun was a boat, or a chariot.
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Jed_
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« Reply #1256 on: June 12, 2019, 08:59:20 PM »


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/politics/bs-md-cross-case-20190225-story,amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1QG1EP


I haven’t been following this case local to me very closely, but I did read something about it a while back that stuck with me.  Seems one of my fellow nonbelievers (or an atheist) said seeing the cross on his daily drives gave him anxiety, so it has to come down.  Now mind you the cross is a memorial to local residents that were killed in WWI and has no other religious symbolism other than being in the shape of a cross.  As a nonbeliever reading about this fellow nonbeliever having his ‘anxiety attacks’, it made me want to go find him and punch him in the mouth for being such an ass.

So I guess I’m saying people like him are why I can never identify as being an atheist.


I'm a confirmed and old-school theist, but I would never believe this guy to be representative of all atheists, or even some atheists (or agnostics, or non-believers). He's an outlier, and a somewhat extreme outlier.

And most atheists of my acquaintance -- and I know several -- respect the beliefs of religious believers, and do not object to them. I hope someday most theists will view atheists the same way: respecting their views, and not getting all bent out of shape when they express them.







It always seems to come down to the worst members of any group being held up as ‘typical’ for that group.  All Republicans are bigots and all Democrats are socialist kooks that want free stuff.

Crazy thing is these outliers got their case to the SCOTUS.

Some might say that my being a closeted atheist is not standing up for my beliefs.  Perhaps it is in a way, but I also don’t feel the need to convert anyone.  Nobody converted me (unlike what many religious people might think).  I came to my conclusions at a young age completely on my own by having an interest in science and have seen nothing since to make me believe otherwise.  Want to believe as a I believe, you’ll have to get there without any preaching from me.  I’ll have discussions and answer questions as long as I feel the questions are sincere, but I’ll never be a crusader.
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psiberzerker
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« Reply #1257 on: June 12, 2019, 09:29:58 PM »

It always seems to come down to the worst members of any group being held up as ‘typical’ for that group.  All Republicans are bigots and all Democrats are socialist kooks that want free stuff.

It seems that unless you're Very specific (Antichristians instead of Atheists) then they assume that the word All is implied in the statement.  Not that statement, for some reason it's not automatically assumed that i mean the word All statement.  Just statements of identities.  Any identity, even not your own.  If someone says bitches love money, then either she says "I'm not a bitch," or he says they aren't All after your money.
Either way, any subject of identity.  Spiritual identity, political identity, national identity.

Americans are like that.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:32:56 PM by psiberzerker » Logged
MintJulie
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« Reply #1258 on: June 14, 2019, 07:05:44 PM »


Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.

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MissBarbara
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« Reply #1259 on: June 14, 2019, 07:07:40 PM »


Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.




And if your non-religion makes you hate religion, or religious believers, you need a new life.




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