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The Tragedy in Flint Michigan - Lead in the water

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Offline Lois

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on: January 27, 2016, 03:29:21 PM
This story highlights what happens when you let bean-counters run a city.  Sometimes short term savings can cause long term disaster.

How tap water became toxic in Flint, Michigan
By Sara Ganim and Linh Tran, CNN

(CNN)Flint, Michigan, lies about 70 miles from the shores of the largest group of fresh water bodies in the world: the Great Lakes. Yet its residents can't get clean water from their taps.

Nearly two years ago, the state decided to save money by switching Flint's water supply from Lake Huron (which they were paying the city of Detroit for), to the Flint River, a notorious tributary that runs through town known to locals for its filth.

"We thought it was a joke," said Rhonda Kelso, a long-time Flint resident. "People my age and older, thought 'They're not going to do that.' "

The switch was made during a financial state of emergency for the ever-struggling industrial town. It was supposed to be temporary while a new state-run supply line to Lake Huron was ready for connection. The project was estimated to take about two years.

Soon after the switch, the water started to look, smell and taste funny. Residents said it often looked dirty.

"The water would come in brown and my daughter was like 'Mom ... why is the water brown?' "

Kelso thought it was sewage, but it was actually iron. The Flint River is highly corrosive: 19 times more so than the Lake Huron supply, according to researchers from Virginia Tech.

According to a class-action lawsuit, the state Department of Environmental Quality wasn't treating the Flint River water with an anti-corrosive agent, in violation of federal law. Therefore, the water was eroding the iron water mains, turning water brown.

But what residents couldn't see was far worse. About half of the service lines to homes in Flint are made of lead and because the water wasn't properly treated, lead began leaching into the water supply, in addition to the iron.

This had been the status quo for nearly two years, and until September, city and state officials told worried residents that everything was fine. Former Flint Mayor Dayne Walling even drank it on local TV to make the point.

But in August, a group of skeptical researchers from Virginia Tech came up and did in-home testing and found elevated levels of lead in the drinking water and made those findings public. State officials insisted their own research was more accurate.

"You're paying for poison. I'm paying for water that's a toxic waste," Kelso said. She and her daughter and four other families are now part of a class-action lawsuit that alleges not only lead poisoning but several medical conditions resulting from contaminated water after the switch. CNN sought responses from all the defendants, and many did not respond.

Later it became publicly known that federal law had not been followed. A 2011 study on the Flint River found it would have to be treated with an anti-corrosive agent for it to be considered as a safe source for drinking water.

Adding that agent would have cost about $100 a day, and experts say 90% of the problems with Flint's water would have been avoided.

But Flint residents say they were kept in the dark for 18 months until a local doctor took things into her own hands.

The article goes on, and is worth reading:  http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/11/health/toxic-tap-water-flint-michigan/



Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 05:05:50 PM
A whole bunch of people need to go to Jail.
Unfortunately that will not happen, what will happen is going to happen to the children of Flint, they will suffer they will bear the cross of what the state did to them.
I hope the lawsuits roll in like a tidal wave.

Love,
Liz



Offline watcher1

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Reply #2 on: January 27, 2016, 07:17:49 PM
A city of mostly low income people.  The powers to be were made aware of this problem when citizens began telling them of the odd colored water coming from their water taps but as is mostly the case when it involves low income people, their complaints were overlooked.  In order to save a few dollars, the city managers decided to quit using the water they were getting from the great lake and started pumping it from the Flint River. The city managers decided to pump huge amounts of chlorine into the water trying to right the problem but all that chlorine just ate into the lead pipes used to bring water from the river, thus leaching lead into the drinking water.  Will be fun to see how the powers to be start blaming each other, as is usually the case.

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Reply #3 on: January 28, 2016, 12:29:30 AM
Why is no one talking about how did the Flint river get to the point it is hazardous to drink. This is just a symptom of long term neglect. And I am as far from a tree hugger you can get. But common sense says the state EPA is not doing there jobs. Start with firing them and getting competent people to do the job.

I like the idea that a voice can just go somewhere, uninvited, and just kinda hang out like a dirty thought in a nice clean mind. Maybe a thought is like a virus,  it can kill all the healthy thoughts

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Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #4 on: January 28, 2016, 02:01:24 AM
Why is no one talking about how did the Flint river get to the point it is hazardous to drink. This is just a symptom of long term neglect. And I am as far from a tree hugger you can get. But common sense says the state EPA is not doing there jobs. Start with firing them and getting competent people to do the job.

Same could be said about the "Love Canal" in New York.
And also the Ohio River the day it caught fire due to extreme pollution.

Love,
Liz



Offline watcher1

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Reply #5 on: February 01, 2016, 04:18:53 PM

Same could be said about the "Love Canal" in New York.
And also the Ohio River the day it caught fire due to extreme pollution.

Love,
Liz


In most cases, the firms that were polluting these sites were the major employers of the towns around these polluted sites and the local and state governments shied away from enforcing any laws until such a groundswell of adverse public opinion forced their hands By that time, the damage had already been done.

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 04:11:57 PM

#BlackLivesMatter
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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #7 on: May 04, 2017, 04:27:03 AM

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Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #8 on: May 04, 2017, 07:47:10 AM
So the city of flint wants the residence to pay for water they can not drink...??
I think 8,000 people should join in a class action law suit against the city and only pay water bills "After" the city corrects it's water problems.

Love,
Liz



Offline Athos_131

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Reply #9 on: June 14, 2017, 11:47:16 PM

#BlackLivesMatter
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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #10 on: June 16, 2017, 02:04:43 AM

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #11 on: June 16, 2017, 02:05:29 AM

#BlackLivesMatter
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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 03:56:27 AM

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Offline Athos_131

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Reply #13 on: July 01, 2017, 05:01:38 AM

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Offline joan1984

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Reply #14 on: July 01, 2017, 02:09:20 PM
Did the people use the water? Did it flow through their faucets, and the Meter?

Lots of uses for convenient water besides drinking from the tap. If they did not use the water, why is it recorded on their Meter?

Most places, the bill is for Water and Sewage, with equal amounts presumed for discharge as sewage, as is Metered as being received via the usage Meter. If the user has documentation that the water was not discharged, such as if it was bottled and sold, and appropriate business taxes should apply, then the sewer amount can be adjusted to reflect such.

Otherwise, the bill for water accepted via faucets and Metered, and presumed placed into sewage, and the various charges that accompany such transactions are due, regardless of whether the people drink said water or not.

Pay the bill, or lose your home due to failure to pay.


So the city of flint wants the residence to pay for water they can not drink...??
I think 8,000 people should join in a class action law suit against the city and only pay water bills "After" the city corrects it's water problems.

Love,
Liz


Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #15 on: July 01, 2017, 11:39:29 PM
Water coming out of you tap is assumed safe.
The State and the County are responsible for that.
"They Failed"..........
For someone to have to pay for the failure of the state (or town or county) is ridiculous.
To pay for something you can't use, except to wash your car (and that's even doubtful) is outrageous.

Love,
Liz
 
 



Offline joan1984

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Reply #16 on: July 01, 2017, 11:54:44 PM
To take your morning shower; weekly bath; prepare meals; wash vegetables; indeed, wash your car; flush your toilets as needed, on demand; why else do you use water at your home, and how was this water not valid for such use?

So you don't drink the water? Umm, in Flint, MI, the State and others provide bottled water at no charge for drinking, and have since Democrats decided to save money by not including additives that would have kept the slime where it belonged, inside the water system pipes of Flint, MI, and not mixed with the water flowing through those pipes from the 'new' cheaper intake at Flint River.

It you use it, you pay for it. Did some people shut off their water taps, and find other ways to live without tap water, without washing clothes, without flushing toilets, for the time period involved? If so, then their Meter would reflect such choices, and their Water, and Sewer bills will reflect their low usage, along with the taxes and surcharges and other fees that everyone's urban water bills show.


Water coming out of you tap is assumed safe.
The State and the County are responsible for that.
"They Failed"..........
For someone to have to pay for the failure of the state (or town or county) is ridiculous.
To pay for something you can't use, except to wash your car (and that's even doubtful) is outrageous.

Love,
Liz
 
 

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.


Offline Elizabeth

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Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 03:19:40 AM
To take your morning shower; weekly bath; prepare meals; wash vegetables; indeed, wash your car; flush your toilets as needed, on demand; why else do you use water at your home, and how was this water not valid for such use?

So you don't drink the water? Umm, in Flint, MI, the State and others provide bottled water at no charge for drinking, and have since Democrats decided to save money by not including additives that would have kept the slime where it belonged, inside the water system pipes of Flint, MI, and not mixed with the water flowing through those pipes from the 'new' cheaper intake at Flint River.

It you use it, you pay for it. Did some people shut off their water taps, and find other ways to live without tap water, without washing clothes, without flushing toilets, for the time period involved? If so, then their Meter would reflect such choices, and their Water, and Sewer bills will reflect their low usage, along with the taxes and surcharges and other fees that everyone's urban water bills show.


Water coming out of you tap is assumed safe.
The State and the County are responsible for that.
"They Failed"..........
For someone to have to pay for the failure of the state (or town or county) is ridiculous.
To pay for something you can't use, except to wash your car (and that's even doubtful) is outrageous.

Love,
Liz
 
 

Joan..
Let me get this straight......you are saying you would or it's okay to bathe in toxic water....??
Ummmm, I'll pass on that, and further I would not cook with it either, you may, but I won't. The state has an obligation to protect it's citizens and it failed......
But feel free to use the Flint Water "any way you like", ....me..?? not a chance in hell.

Love,
Liz



Offline RopeFiend

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Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 03:54:11 AM

There's another thread around here identical to this one... I know 'cos I responded in the earlier one.  From what I'd read (last year?), Washington D.C. had the highest concentration of lead in the water pipes, with most of the other old cities following closely behind it.

The symptoms of lead poisoning are blurry and can mimic a buttload of other 'conditions', and generally don't show up until you've hit a dangerously high level of lead.

One of the school playgrounds in the middle of old Phoenix had to have the top 4 inches of dirt removed and replaced 'cos it had high levels of lead from the old auto exhaust fumes.  I presume it's similar in other old cities.  Lead doesn't break down much; it's pretty stable on it's own.  It may not be as bad on other cities since they have soil... Phoenix has dirt that's about as organic and friendly as Portland Pre-Mix concrete.  My brother broke a pickaxe in half trying to dig trenches for a sprinkler system.  He finally gave up and rented a narrow trencher for a day.  It still took a helluva long time to dig the trenches.

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Offline joan1984

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Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 06:58:16 PM
  Liz, I am saying, if one did not use the water, fearing it's toxicity, did not bathe in it, wash her clothing in it, drink it, cook with it, wash her car with it, or flush her toilets, then that individual's low use should be reflected in the Meter reading for her Water/Sewer bill, and indeed little should be charged... we always have the fees and taxes and meter rental or whatever, but low use = low pay.

  So we agree, if she used a lot of water, received a high bill, she should pay for what she used, for whatever purposes.

Some people are like the 'slinky'. Not really good for much,
but they bring a smile to your face as they fall down stairs.