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Gunnerman19
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« Reply #285 on: December 01, 2019, 11:29:38 PM »

I agree on the past historic changes of climate. On a smaller scale the little ice age came after a warming period as well. So if these changes happened in history multiple times they what would make you think that the current models are correct? Also what makes you believe that humans are to blame...if you believe that they are to blame, Lois.
As Joan said, the US is probly one of the only countries that meets or exceeds the goals of the Paris Accord right now. Not sure I can ever agree with the idea that we can stop the natural course of our planet. No matter how much money is thrown at fixing what may not need fixed. I don’t deny the climate is changing whatsoever.
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galaxybounce
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« Reply #286 on: December 02, 2019, 01:34:54 AM »

Also what makes you believe that humans are to blame

I'm not a climatologist but I'll try to give my best summary. Since the industrial revolution, humans have been generating massive amounts of greenhouse gases, far outpacing the natural rate. These gases prevent thermal radiation from escaping Earth's atmosphere as quickly as it otherwise would. This increases the amount of heat absorbed by the planet and raises global temperatures.

You are correct in that Earth's climate is cyclical. There were ice ages before there were humans and there will probably be ice ages after we are gone. It may or may not be possible for humans to ultimately prevent a catastrophic climate event, but we definitely can delay it. The key idea is not whether or not climate change will happen but the rate at which it happens. Less greenhouse gases means slower rate of change which means more time to develop better technologies for avoiding disaster or surviving it.
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Gunnerman19
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« Reply #287 on: December 02, 2019, 06:08:18 AM »

Now darn it galaxybounce, I was hoping that Toe or Lois would have responded. Well written or typed rather. I enjoy your in-site and way of putting thought down on paper ( or computer).
Okay it would seem I can’t dispute most of what you have explained other than we are a natural part of this planet. We are a part of it. We didn’t come here from another planet with the potential of off setting the balance. We are part of the balance. Everything we are and do is a part of it. We are made here and die here. Seems simple doesn’t it. There is more scientific proof in the way our planet changes and renews itself, I think we can agree on that. So if these things are true and global warming is “man made” Because of emissions of green house gases during and since the industrial revolution then the problem is solely man kind. Also that would mean the problem is getting worse because there are more people on earth requiring more food, etc, etc . Are we really going to be throwing money at a problem that really would require only removing 3/4 of the human population because that is what would have to be done. Well who’s first? This is why people don’t stop driving and turning lights on. Without killing off most of the human race, the natural events are set and we are along for the ride. Other than finding another planet or killing billions of innocent people, which to me are both ridiculous than I see nothing we can do and no amount of money can change that. We need to accept that we are a natural part of this place we call home and enjoy it while we are here. I think it is more likely that an asteroid or commit takes us out before the side affects of natural global warmings and natural climate changes.
Climate change and global warming is nothing new. It is natural. Blaming Trump or corporations and other people along with trying to make people feel bad for something we have very little control over is ridiculous, tho effective when raising money. Especially when as a nation, the US is already doing it’s fair share and more.
What would you have done different during the industrial revolution? Since this seems to be what everyone agrees was the start. Did it seem like we did the best with what we had?
Are you willing to spend that money on the slaughter of so many innocent humans? No I don’t actually believe you would want this, just to be clear.





« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 07:41:58 AM by Gunnerman19 » Logged
galaxybounce
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« Reply #288 on: December 02, 2019, 12:19:43 PM »


Without killing off most of the human race, the natural events are set and we are along for the ride. Other than finding another planet or killing billions of innocent people, which to me are both ridiculous than I see nothing we can do and no amount of money can change that. We need to accept that we are a natural part of this place we call home and enjoy it while we are here. I think it is more likely that an asteroid or commit takes us out before the side affects of natural global warmings and natural climate changes.

There is an ethical argument that us humans are custodians of the Earth and should act as such, but to me the existential threat to humankind is the primary concern. As I alluded to in my previous post, what can be achieved by trying to reduce or even reverse the damage that humans have done to our own long term ability to survive on this planet is granting us more time to invent and refine technologies that clean the air, remove heat from the planet or find and travel to other inhabitable planets. There is a strong argument for also considering a way to mitigate the damage of an asteroid impact, but considering how difficult it is to convince people to act in relation to climate change it would probably be wise to focus on one problem at a time.


Blaming Trump or corporations and other people along with trying to make people feel bad for something we have very little control over is ridiculous, tho effective when raising money.

Some, if not most, big companies will do whatever they can to preserve their own short term profit over all else, up to and including the survivability of the species. Blaming corporations for fucking up the planet is like blaming a wild animal for attacking you. Governments are at fault for being too afraid of corporations to actually impose regulations on them.

As for Trump, no individual can be singled out as wholly responsible, but it is undeniably a big problem that the leader of the largest economy in the world denies the science behind climate change.

Especially when as a nation, the US is already doing it’s fair share and more.

Lies make Baby Jesus cry.

What would you have done different during the industrial revolution? Since this seems to be what everyone agrees was the start. Did it seem like we did the best with what we had?

I don't blame people for being ignorant to the damage they were doing before the information was even available.
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Gunnerman19
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« Reply #289 on: December 02, 2019, 04:53:59 PM »

Oh yes, I remember in the 1990s we were all supposed to burn up in a Terminator movie type fiery blaze because of global warming by like 2010. Here we are damn near 2020. Still can’t clean the air any better. Even solar technology really hasn’t advanced much more. You are worried about something that many scientist are predicting. They analyze info., interpret the data, creat a program with worst case scenario using the data. As far as us inventing stuff to make the earth better and help us to live long...come on. We have been playing around with “making the planet better” for a long time and really haven’t made anything better. Many times the things we think help actually cause harm.
Eggs were bad for you but now they are the “incredible edible egg”. Bacon has been bad for you but here they are changing that as well.
Well use the same tactics for asteroid and commit deflection as has been use with climate change, make it man kinds fault. Surely just the fact that we are here is fault enough isn’t it. Wouldn’t it be a mistake to spend all this money to prevent climate change but to have it all fucked up in one moment by a commit that ends up distorting humans?

Yes yes...damn corporations that brought us dawn soap that is used to clean oil from birds of oil spills. Damn the ones that make it easy to reach out and turn a light on or have hot water right now. Damn these same corporations for providing jobs to people. How dare they be so terrible. I bet each corporation is thinking their profit could be better if we could just finish off the damn human population.
Not imposing government regulations on corporations...are you kidding here??? I hope you are!
As for President Trump, admit it, you all have a hard on for him. I’d say don’t be so sensitive to what the guy says. We the people are still in charge. That’s why he’s president.

Lies...hmmm. Where’s your proof. Just saying they make baby Jesus cry is not proof of a lie. You said it yourself “the largest economy in the world” in reference to its leadership. I think if you dig down you will find it is not a lie. In fact we fund many things many of us believe we shouldn’t. Fact is the largest economy has been doing the most and including other nations and helping fund their same save the planet schemes for years and years. You may not want it to be so but a lie it is not.




« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 07:45:20 PM by Gunnerman19 » Logged
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« Reply #290 on: December 02, 2019, 05:23:52 PM »

Oh yes, I remember in the 1990s we were all supposed to burn up in a Terminator movie type fiery blaze because of global warming by like 2010.



Funny that you mention The Terminator, because nobody but Hollywood would have said 2010.



Here we are damn near 2020.



Yep, and things have accelerated worse than the predictions a decade or two ago.  A man made climate crisis isn’t on the horizon, it’s already here.
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Gunnerman19
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« Reply #291 on: December 02, 2019, 05:50:17 PM »

Well Hollywood has fueled much of the fear of “man made” climate change. Pretty sure I’m not the only one to reference a movie on here. Wouldn’t be the first time Hollywood has helped to further a ridiculous idea.
Maybe you should just crawl in to a cave where you will be safe. Find an underground bunker and stay there. Here’s another movie for ya. Remember Blast From The Past? They thought a nuke was inbound so they spent like 20 years underground while everyone else was living and enjoying life. For the most part the man made climate change is only a scheme. Something will most likely take us out for sure. Our climate, disease, volcanos, earthquakes, commits, asteroids, Aliens (no not the ones from the south border), some black hole, etc, etc.

I’m not against treating our planet with respect. I’m all for using  resources wisely and with as little waste as possible. To blame people of the industrial revolution seem idiotic because of simple common sense. My parents and grandparents always used to tell me “if you Are leaving a room then make sure you shut off the lights. Sunday drives, we would pick up pop/beer cans along the rode side along with garbage. We would turn the cans in to help fund our summer vacations. My grandparents were some of the best recycler I knew. They didn’t waist anything it seemed. They walked to the store to friends house. I was told stories of how my great grand parent were as well and it was very similar with little waist. If it could be used again or repurposed it was. I’d be for betting that my family wasn’t the only family in the US or world that was that way.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 06:45:05 PM by Gunnerman19 » Logged
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