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Colour-coded maps disprove Trump

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IdleBoast

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on: September 01, 2018, 10:44:35 PM
Trump and others regularly claim that the UK is being over-taken by muslim immigrants, they claim districts, sometime whole cities being made no=go zones because of the locals (and local police) being afraid to go there.

New maps, made up of dots representing individuals, colour-coded by religion, prove them wrong.






Source (including data): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6121487/Colour-coded-London-map-uses-one-paint-dot-person-faith.html



Offline joan1984

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Reply #1 on: September 02, 2018, 03:08:15 AM
 Very interesting may and method to display. Thank you.

  The data for this map is 2011 Census Data, and will be very interesting to see the next update, to see differences over 7 or more years between the update and 2011.

  As well interesting would be seeing the previous Census Data, prior to 2011, displayed in similar color fashion.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:10:16 AM by joan1984 »

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psiberzerker

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Reply #2 on: September 02, 2018, 05:31:33 AM
Okay, well he doesn't know what the fuck is going on in Washington, and if he even believes that paranoid bullshit about Great Briton in the first place, it's completely ignoring the irrefutable fact that it has fuck all to do with the domestic situation in America.

So, basically, ask your psychiatrist if paranoid factoids from bond villains with delusions of grandure about places he's not even welcome to fucking visit, and speak at are right for you?

Anybody who can watch that guy talk with the closest he can get to a straight face, and not think about Goldfinger isn't going to believe any amount of evidence that he's the fucking Antichrist.  Look it up, in the book of Revelations, and you'll see the same picture of his fat smug guilded face grinning back at you with the word of blasphemy on his forehead as you get plastered on your news feed.

The last person who dominated all media worldwide to this level of saturation was called der Fuhrer, and they canceled not 1, but 2 Olympics because of his crusade to cleanse the world (Including Great Briton) of undesirable people with fucking cruise missiles.  He just didn't have Twitter to brag about it before the Vengance weapons were even fucking launched.

Of course he's got it all wrong.  It's what he does.  Better than anyone in this generation.



IdleBoast

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Reply #3 on: September 02, 2018, 10:24:58 AM
 Very interesting may and method to display. Thank you.

  The data for this map is 2011 Census Data, and will be very interesting to see the next update, to see differences over 7 or more years between the update and 2011.

We only have a full census every 10 years.

Quote
As well interesting would be seeing the previous Census Data, prior to 2011, displayed in similar color fashion.[/color]

Feel free, but previous census weren't in such an accessible format: https://census.ukdataservice.ac.uk/

I can tell you, though, that the pattern is not unexpected, and has not changed significantly in my five decades - the blotches might move around, but this has been a multi-cultural nation for hundreds of years; people come, they make their enclaves and communities, and they eventually merge into the broader culture.

We have a pulse of Muslim immigrants now, but we have more eastern EU immigrants - they're just not so visible on the streets because they're white and dress like "us".

Before that the ones "taking over" were black, Jewish, German, French, Belgian, Dutch, Normans, Danish/Vikings, Romans...

All the US is "suffering" now are the growing pains of a young* nation moving into its political puberty, staying in its bedroom and playing depressing music, rebelling against the authority of the elder nations after realising they have muscles, but also wanting to belong to a group, a gang, and are attracted to other strong rebels.



*Yes, I mean young. I live in a town five times older than the US. I used to live in a house built before "Columbus sailed the ocean blue".



Offline Lois

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Reply #4 on: September 11, 2018, 02:37:53 AM
So where are the West-End girls?  Are they all Hindi now?  :emot_kiss:



psiberzerker

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Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
So where are the West-End girls?

Have you checked the Pet-Shop?



IdleBoast

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Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 07:16:00 PM
 :facepalm:




Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #7 on: September 12, 2018, 02:46:39 AM
Actually, I believe the No-Go Zones were in Sweden. 

Just another surplus living the American dream


IdleBoast

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Reply #8 on: September 12, 2018, 11:36:13 AM
Actually, I believe the No-Go Zones were in Sweden. 

They have been said to exist all over Europe.

They do not.

If anybody tells you that these areas exist, they are either deliberately lying to you to promote a racist agenda, or they have failed to fact-check the lies of others, because those lies fit their own bigoted view of the world.

As a group, immigrant populations tend to be more law-abiding than "locals", because they know that being caught breaking the law will cost them their chance in their chosen country.



Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #9 on: September 12, 2018, 05:05:07 PM
Actually, I believe the No-Go Zones were in Sweden. 

They have been said to exist all over Europe.

They do not.

If anybody tells you that these areas exist, they are either deliberately lying to you to promote a racist agenda, or they have failed to fact-check the lies of others, because those lies fit their own bigoted view of the world.

As a group, immigrant populations tend to be more law-abiding than "locals", because they know that being caught breaking the law will cost them their chance in their chosen country.

Actually, my understanding is that crime is on the rise, especially certain violent crimes.  However they are not to the point of total anarchy as the Right would point out, but they are also far from the peaceful utopia that the left is arguing.

Look at it this way, what does the Irish Mob, the Jewish mob, the Italian Mob, and the Latin Kings all have in common?  They all started in immigrant communities in America.

But the thing is, the US, by concept is more able to accept immigrant communities into its borders, that is what we do and we still have problems, albeit comparatively small ones.  However Europe is far more homogenized than the US...are you honestly trying to tell me that, unlike America (The Mother of Immigrants) Europe is welcoming their immigrants into the country without a hiccup? 

I don't buy that, there is a HUGE "you can't be X because you're not like us" vibe in Europe.  They accept people, but the people are still the outsiders.  That's a breeding ground right there.

If the US had those problems, it's naive to say that Europe doesn't.  And believe me, I spent half my life there, there is a welcome not welcome thing that happens.

Just another surplus living the American dream


IdleBoast

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Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 06:09:31 PM
Actually, I believe the No-Go Zones were in Sweden. 

They have been said to exist all over Europe.

They do not.

If anybody tells you that these areas exist, they are either deliberately lying to you to promote a racist agenda, or they have failed to fact-check the lies of others, because those lies fit their own bigoted view of the world.

As a group, immigrant populations tend to be more law-abiding than "locals", because they know that being caught breaking the law will cost them their chance in their chosen country.

Actually, my understanding is that crime is on the rise, especially certain violent crimes.  However they are not to the point of total anarchy as the Right would point out, but they are also far from the peaceful utopia that the left is arguing.

Look at it this way, what does the Irish Mob, the Jewish mob, the Italian Mob, and the Latin Kings all have in common?  They all started in immigrant communities in America.

But the thing is, the US, by concept is more able to accept immigrant communities into its borders, that is what we do and we still have problems, albeit comparatively small ones.  However Europe is far more homogenized than the US...are you honestly trying to tell me that, unlike America (The Mother of Immigrants) Europe is welcoming their immigrants into the country without a hiccup? 

I don't buy that, there is a HUGE "you can't be X because you're not like us" vibe in Europe.  They accept people, but the people are still the outsiders.  That's a breeding ground right there.

If the US had those problems, it's naive to say that Europe doesn't.  And believe me, I spent half my life there, there is a welcome not welcome thing that happens.

I never said we were problem free, but we certainly lack the problems that some people (especially in the US) claim we do. The problems that exist are more likely to be the result of lack of acceptance by the residents than crimes committed by the immigrants.

Some violent crimes are rising, but that is partly a result of changes to the law and society making it easier to report crimes like sexual assault or rape without so much stigma, and has no link to immigration. Crime overall is falling.

Quote
"the US, by concept is more able to accept immigrant communities into its borders"

Maybe by concept, but not, as we see, in practice.

-----------

You call yourself "IrishGirl" - are you in Ireland, or just claiming Irish decent?




Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #11 on: September 12, 2018, 10:22:04 PM

Quote
"the US, by concept is more able to accept immigrant communities into its borders"

Maybe by concept, but not, as we see, in practice.

-----------

You call yourself "IrishGirl" - are you in Ireland, or just claiming Irish decent?



I would argue that, every immigration wave has dealt with the shit, we've all seen Gangs of New York, but that doesn't even cover the anti-Irish riots that tore Philly apart.

What we are seeing with the new immigration wave, the largest since Black 47, is fairly tame, and the thing is all the age-old arguments are echoing again.

"They can't speak English...English isn't going to be the common language in American any more..."  Yadda yadda yadda, we heard that with EVERY immigration wave in this country.

But this is America, we are the Mother of Immigrants, America as assimilates better than anyplace on earth.  There is a reason why German, Polish, and Mexican food rule Chicago, and if you go South you see French cuisine as a commonality. There is a reason why we have a China Town and a Little Italy in nearly every major city.

America does mutual assimilation.  As waves of immigrants come in, we adopt their cultures as they assimilate to ours.  It's really what America does best, and we do it best because we have always done it.

It's such a part of our culture that we have it engraved in one of our most iconic national monuments (thank you France).

But you go to Europe, they don't have a fluid culture like we do, welcoming new immigrants in is far harder for them.

What the US is seeing now is just growing pains, give it a generation and things will calm.  Give it half a century and the children of the immigrants will be in the Oval Office.

It's a lot easier here than it is in the UK where my mother doesn't even feel like part of the British culture by virtue of religion and Island of birth.

Just another surplus living the American dream


IdleBoast

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Reply #12 on: September 12, 2018, 10:52:38 PM
Speaking as a European, with numerous friends in the US, I think I can safely say that you do not actually have any idea what you are talking about.

Tou are already repeating yourself, presenting your wished-for scenario as if it were fact.

You don't seem to realise that having "towns" (China towne etc) are a sign of segregation, not assimilation.



Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #13 on: September 12, 2018, 11:05:12 PM
Speaking as a European, with numerous friends in the US, I think I can safely say that you do not actually have any idea what you are talking about.

Tou are already repeating yourself, presenting your wished-for scenario as if it were fact.

You don't seem to realise that having "towns" (China towne etc) are a sign of segregation, not assimilation.

Oh?  Because they are forced to live there and not leave?  They are cultural centers.  We also have the Ukrainian Village, There are Irish and German areas of Chicago and New York.

It's not segregation it's settlement.  If you moved from the Ukraine, Poland, wherever to the US, would you rather not live in areas where you can get the same things you had at home?  Areas where "bilingual" means your language and English?

Someone from Italy MIGHT want to move to a bland  WASP white bread Americanized town...or they might want to live where they can get the food and culture of home without having to go to Olive Garden if they want something vaguely close to what they like.

Would you rather live where people actually know what Marmite is?  Where Jaffa cakes and Hula Hoops are available in stores?  Or a place where people think "spotted dick" is an STD?

I mean if it were me, if I were taking advantage of my dual citizenship, I'd want to live in a part of town where they put a lot of ice in their soda.  Someplace where I can get enchiladas and tamales without walking through the city with a tooth-comb?  Have you ever gone into a Mexican Restaurant in the EU?  It's nearly impossible to find absolute shit, I doubt there's one in all of Belfast...but after a few months you get so homesick that you'll even eat their bland crap tacos.

In the US, there are areas where you know you can still be surrounded by your home, even if you are thousands of miles away.

But then, I am SURE you know far more about that than anyone, being an expert on immigration
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 11:14:54 PM by IrishGirl »

Just another surplus living the American dream


Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #14 on: September 13, 2018, 01:28:29 AM
It's not segregation it's settlement.  If you moved from the Ukraine, Poland, wherever to the US, would you rather not live in areas where you can get the same things you had at home?  Areas where "bilingual" means your language and English?

 An integrated society does not have pockets of foreign cultures scattered through its geography, but it has a culture of its own influenced by all those foreign cultural inputs.

Well what you're describing I would call a society that has become homogenized, which also happens over time.  And I think you are doing it because you're associating cultural areas with "segregation." 

The Italian and German immigration waves are long over.  We don't look as someone with the name "Schultz" as not being American any longer, however there are still ethnically German neighborhoods in major cities.  Are you suggesting that we are still segregating Germans?

No, that's where the Germans live and their culture survives.  No one is saying that they absolutely have to live there, and certainly not everyone that lives there are German.  But its the area where German culture remains in abundance.  And, in any major city there are still areas where those cultures survive.

Italians are Americans, there is little Italy, no one is going to see an Italian surname and assume that they aren't Americans because of it.

Quote
What you describe is not a society where people can choose to experience their heritage but a society where people feel they have to live in close proximity with other people with the same heritage in order to experience it.


German cuisine is totally removed from Mexican,  from French, from Indian, from Chinese, you can see certain items dispersed to just about EVERY store in the US because we assimilate to immigrants as much as they do to us. But there is not a demand for arugula in every part of the country, same with chickpeas, not everyone is going to wear a chadri.

America is over 2,000 miles wide, that is a hell of a lot of land for immigrants to disperse over.

You're describing a utopia where they can move to Dragass Idaho, population 500, and still be able have total access to all their culture and goods, to their traditional food?  No, that's logistically impossible.

In order to achieve what you are talking about, you have to take ONE of every Nationality and force them to settle in every area of the United States...then force every store in those areas to carry the goods, clothes, toys, food, in every store across those 2,600 miles.

It doesn't work like that.  The Germans and Poles and Ukrainians, they came to Chicago and New York, so it's Chicago and New York where those cultures still thrive.

You want to get good Mexican food or see a Dia de Muertos shrine, you can do it in California, you can do it in Texas, in Chicago, in New York, New Mexico, because that is where they are settling.  You won't find it in Baton Rogue or Savannah because they didn't settle there.  And no one is pointing a gun to their head and saying "You have to move to Chicago" when they come to the US.

Conversely, to distribute it the way you are talking, you have to force them to move away from where their friends and family had settled before to effectively distribute the culture across the country.

Even then, Mexican and Irish places are the easiest to find across America because, frankly, they have the highest immigration numbers.

I'm frankly telling you that, to totally emerge America in EVERY culture that has come here, and we are unique in that we have representatives of EVERY nation and EVERY religion and EVERY culture on the globe, you have to do a LOT of forced relocation of the people of those cultures.

It's honestly, a far more peaceful means to just let people come to where they want to live and not force them across the land to appropriately dissimulate the cultures, even then people say American culture is bland, all that merging would be, frankly,  boring


Just another surplus living the American dream


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Reply #15 on: September 13, 2018, 02:56:10 AM
Oh it is nice to see GB out and about once more. :)

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Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #16 on: September 13, 2018, 03:28:25 AM
Quote
Quote from: IrishGirl on Today at 01:28:29 AM
Are you suggesting that we are still segregating Germans?

No, which is not to say that that doesn't happen, just it's not something I took notice of when I've visited the US. The informal segregation of other cultures is much more obvious.

Well, there are German towns in the US as well, especially in Chicago, and they have been fully assimilated in the US for a century.  And because of that, a lot of Germans that still do move to the US settle in those areas.

By your summation, we would be segregating them as well because the areas where you can buy German goods and foods are still in one area and that is the area.

Quote
Italians are Americans, there is little Italy, no one is going to see an Italian surname and assume that they aren't Americans because of it.

Why would anyone ever assume someone's nationality based on their surname?

See above, it goes back to your definition of segregation because of places like Little Italy.  And Segregation is FORCED by nature.

Quote
You're describing a utopia where they can move to Dragass Idaho, population 500, and still be able have total access to all their culture and goods, to their traditional food?  No, that's logistically impossible.

I was actually thinking of my experiences of the city in Toronto, where there are all kinds of ethnic quarters but where the people you see living in, working in and visiting all parts of the city are completely diverse. The same cannot be said for anywhere I have been in America. Many places I've been in Europe come close, but I think Toronto has the best balance of ethnic diversity, integration and celebration of ethnic cultures.

And what you saw in Toronto is absolutely NO different than in the US.  Just because China Town is the center of Chinese culture and has the Chinese goods, doesn't mean that ONLY the Chinese live there, and that they are restricted to that area, it just means that's where all the restaurants and shops are.  And it occurs because that's where the population centers of that immigration movement occurred.

It really sounds like you are saying that the people there aren't allowed to  leave there or find work outside that area.  that's not at all the case.

Quote
Quote from: IrishGirl on Today at 01:28:29 AM
In order to achieve what you are talking about, you have to take ONE of every Nationality and force them to settle in every area of the United States...

Weapons grade bollocks.

Quote from: IrishGirl on Today at 01:28:29 AM
we are unique in that we have representatives of EVERY nation and EVERY religion and EVERY culture on the globe

Now I'm struggling to believe you have actually travelled. Ireland is not a particularly diverse country, much less so than much of Europe and North America at least, and we're a small country with a relatively low population, but even we have "representatives of EVERY nation and EVERY religion and EVERY culture on the globe."

Actually not at all.  not all but certainly a significant portion of the Europeans I know think that they can see New York and drive to LA, then make it back to catch their flight out of New York in four days.  Even the ones that have been to America don't seem to understand the size of it.

I've been to Ireland, you have HALF the population of New York city in your country.  Meanwhile we have Zoroastrian churches in Chicago, New York, LA.

In Ireland, hell yes, its a lot easier to spread the culture everywhere.  It's puny and your major cities look like suburbs of ours.  Even my home town of Boston has over twice as many people as Dublin, and that's small enough to be a suburb of our major cities.

So to think that disperse different cultures to every corner of it, is, yes, something that you have to FORCE on people.

We're rather big, we have population centers that have twice the population of your country, and entire states that don't even have the population of Belfast.

Just another surplus living the American dream


Offline Jed_

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Reply #17 on: September 13, 2018, 04:40:05 AM
Other than a preponderance of specific ethnic restaurants, you can’t really tell in the U.S. when you’ve walked into Chinatown and then into Little Italy.  You probably could a few generations ago, but that hard ethnic delineation of the landscape fades rather quickly in the U.S.



Offline IrishGirl

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Reply #18 on: September 13, 2018, 05:09:28 AM
Quote
And what you saw in Toronto is absolutely NO different than in the US.

Oh, well if you say so then it must be true. What a fool I am for trusting my own first hand experiences.


Ok, so we are segregated because we have China Town and Little Italy, and the Ukrainian Village...and Toronto isn't because they don't?

Here are two of MANY examples:

This is Koreatown in Toronto:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreatown,_Toronto

This is China Town in Toronto:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown,_Toronto

Now, unlike you, I am NOT going to suggest that you haven't been to Toronto.  But I am going to suggest that you aren't as familiar with what you are talking about as you claim to be.

Because, they have the EXACT SAME cultural strongholds that you say are a product of segregation in America.  And they DO NOT have the Jon Crow history that the US had.

The reason why they have these "segregated areas" is because that is what happens when you have immigration!  It's a product of cities in countries with a history or immigration!

So, like I said, I'm not going to be an elitist and imply that you haven't been to Toronto, and I am certainly NOT going to imply that you haven't even been to one of the ethnic strongholds.  But, I'm fairly certain that you really don't understand how these things work and probably walked right through one of these "segregated" areas, and not even known you were doing it.

Just another surplus living the American dream


Offline MissBarbara

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Reply #19 on: September 13, 2018, 03:45:50 PM

Other than a preponderance of specific ethnic restaurants, you can’t really tell in the U.S. when you’ve walked into Chinatown and then into Little Italy.  You probably could a few generations ago, but that hard ethnic delineation of the landscape fades rather quickly in the U.S.


Although this is likely the exception that proves your rule, in New York City you can clearly tell when the difference between Little Italy and Chinatown, which are adjacent to each other.

Yes, the restaurants are the most obvious clue, but Chinatown, in lower Manhattan, is a thriving -- and growing -- Chinese and Chinese-American community that's been there for close to 150 years. Over and above the fact that it's filled with Asians, there are all kinds of businesses and services that cater to that community, most notably, many neighborhood associations (for lack of a better term) that help Chinese immigrants.








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