I read a quote today that knocked me out

[Insiderman]

"Feminists love masculinity so much that they want to reserve it to themselves, and hate femininity so much that they try to steer the men they hate to become more feminine, while steering women away from the feminine. Modern feminism is a disease. It is both anti-woman and anti-man."

Well said. 

I have often felt that when a woman feels she has to stop being a woman, worse yet stop other women from being women (which means to stop being themselves and stop being individuals) she has lost all credibility.

If I may most humbly state, the women I most admire are those who do not need to be told what to do, how to act, or where to go in life.

[psiberzerker]

Who said that?  If you're going to give a quote, then respect the author enough to credit him.

Men hate feminists so much, they tell everyone what it's all about, rather than let them speak for themselves.  

I have often felt that when a woman feels she has to stop being a woman, worse yet stop other women from being women (which means to stop being themselves and stop being individuals) she has lost all credibility.

When did feminism ever have any to lose, in your mind?  How exactly do you expect women to stop being women, short of Surgery?  Put on makeup, shave off their body hair, and maybe bleach blond?

It's fairly obvious that everything you "Know" about feminists, you learned from those who hate them, and not actual feminists.  For the record, no.  It's not about hating men, and women.  It's about people being ourselves.

[watcher1]

I, too, was looking for who authored the qoute insiderman quoted. That said, my take is that feminism is equality women want and rightfully deserve in a still male dominated society.

[RopeFiend]

I don't think it's a quote, as NO piece of it that I google turns up any hits.  It's more like someone paraphrasing or rephrasing someone else.  I checked 4 chunks of that 'quote'.

I don't currently KNOW any 'feminists', so I can't speak for their mindset.

[_priapism]

I read a quote today that knocked me out too.  “God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.” 1 John 4:16.

[psiberzerker]

In other news:

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8NDCJY5DW4&t=2s
mod note:   copy and paste link above.  
Youtube preview removed for display of underage subjects.

[Athos_131]

Men hate feminists so much, they tell everyone what it's all about, rather than let them speak for themselves.  

We do?

#Resist

[psiberzerker]

We do?

#Resist

Well, actually.  You know #NotAllMen...

In other news:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_UbFjUlWnI

[Lois]

I am a feminist.  For me that means both men and women have the right to choose.  It means equal opportunities for both men and women to pursue whatever makes them happy, regardless of gender.

[Katiebee]

I simply want to be seen as a person, not as a sexual object. It seems to me that some people equate being feminine to being something you fuck.

Oh and feminine also must mean being weak. May I point you to an observation by a British poet? Read “The Female of the Species”, by Kipling.

[Remington555]

I am a feminist.  For me that means both men and women have the right to choose.  It means equal opportunities for both men and women to pursue whatever makes them happy, regardless of gender.

By your definition, I am a feminist too.

Equal opportunities should be a basic human right.

In an ideal world... well, that's a topic for another thread.

Remmy

[MissBarbara]

"Feminists love masculinity so much that they want to reserve it to themselves, and hate femininity so much that they try to steer the men they hate to become more feminine, while steering women away from the feminine. Modern feminism is a disease. It is both anti-woman and anti-man."

Well said. 

I have often felt that when a woman feels she has to stop being a woman, worse yet stop other women from being women (which means to stop being themselves and stop being individuals) she has lost all credibility.

If I may most humbly state, the women I most admire are those who do not need to be told what to do, how to act, or where to go in life.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel...

While that quote, and your observations, certainly conforms to the stereotype of feminists, it doesn't reflect, even slightly, the state of 21st century feminism.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the words "masculine" and "feminine" mean, and you certainly have a warped view of what "being a woman" and "being a man" means. Most important, you don't seem to have the slightest understanding of what feminism, as a socio-political movement, intends.

It's true that there are some women who label themselves "feminists," or "radical feminists," who could be correctly labelled man-haters, and who do a disservice to both en and women (and who tend to derail genuine feminist efforts). But they are a microscopic subset of both feminists in general, and, of course, women in general. Thus, the stereotype: Applying the beliefs, statements, and actions of a tiny subset of a group to the group as a whole. And this stereotype of feminists is as true as any other stereotype: All blacks are criminals, all Mexicans are lazy, all Jews are greedy, etc., etc.

How, in your opinion, does a woman be a woman? Does she need to wear pearls and frilly dresses, accept a subservient position to men, and keep her mouth shut in the public square? How, exactly, is advocating for equal rights and equal opportunities anti-woman (or anti-man)? And when you assert that feminists "stop being themselves and stop being individuals," do you apply that to all rights movements? Did Martin Luther King stop being himself and stop being an individual, and did his efforts stop blacks from being themselves and from being individuals?

Perhaps most noteworthy, "feminism" isn't the exclusive domain of women (let alone radical women). I could make a quick list of a number men right here on KB who views, based on what they've posted here, are clearly "feminist." Should they shut up, too?

A feminist does not need to "stop being a woman." And, at the same time, a woman who doesn't "look like a woman" or "act like a woman" can be feminine. There's a couple whom I periodically hang out with who, if you didn't look closely, you'd assume were men. They dress like men, wear their hair like men, and, in most superficial respects, appear to be men. But if you stop obsessing over appearances -- and stop politicizing appearances -- you'll find that they are just as feminine as I am, and just as feminine as most other women are.

Do yourself a favor: Stop clinging to stereotypes, stop politicizing femininity (and masculinity), and stop viewing women as if we're still in the 19th century.

[RopeFiend]

I simply want to be seen as a person, not as a sexual object. It seems to me that some people equate being feminine to being something you fuck.

I like being seen as a sexual object, but that's just me... 


Well, maybe not 'just me': note all of the POV porn that's done (primarily) for men.  There's a disembodied dick and a bit of torso in those, but no 'guy' to speak of.

[psiberzerker]

Well, maybe not 'just me': note all of the POV porn that's done (primarily) for men.  There's a disembodied dick and a bit of torso in those, but no 'guy' to speak of.

I noticed that too (At a far too young age) but men are objectified down to 1 organ.  1 stat, how many inches?  In the Playboy Centerfolds, at least women got 5'2", Blond, and Blue, 36, 24, 36D.  But even if we're not talking about the PoV porn, where the guy's head is behind the camera.  Look at this:


This,
This,
And this.  

I would call these fairly typical, taken from the first line of a random search for [Porn Gifs.]

Men don't have Heads in porn.  They have a dick, and a cum shot.  They're not even playing a character.  Their Role is a dildo.  Even in a gangbang.  Obviously, it's so that he can imagine that's his dick, fucking her.  Now, look at any gay porn, or lesbian porn.  Both of them have faces, top bottom, or switch.

[Lois]

I've heard that is done so the male viewer can imagine he's the one doing the fucking.  Any thoughts on that?

[psiberzerker]

I've heard that is done so the male viewer can imagine he's the one doing the fucking.  Any thoughts on that?

I hadn't heard that, but that's what I assumed.  (Why I said it.)  However, like all psycho-sexual things, it's probably a myriad of motives, and since we're talking about an Industry here, probably to varying degrees, depending on the viewer.

For some, the primary fantasy may be that's My dick there, she's sucking, and the PoV niche in particular, but notice the 3rd image is from Blacked.com?  (Some viewers may not have noticed that he was black at all, with her in the foreground.  in that room full of Virginal White.)

So, the secondary niche may possibly be something like the Slut.  Especially on Interracial "Dogfart" blacks on blondes, I have to assume that the white guys watching it don't imagine they're a black man, fucking a skinny little white girl with fair-to-albino skin.  It's probably about the racial stereotype, and size disparity.  The most extreme, biggest cock (BBC) littlest little girl.

Also, i have to point out the pleasure, even if it's feigned pleasure in all 4 examples.  Even the Beej, she's enjoying it, or at least a good actress.  We can tell he's at least turned on by it, because boner.  There is a bit of sexual entropy here, regardless of the underlying fantasies, and the fact that it's marketed toward men, it's a hell of a lot easier to show his pleasure, arousal, and orgasm than her's, because it's all Internal.  With the exception of Creampie, there's basically no question of him faking an orgasm (with a jump-cut to squirt her full of white jellied fluid when he pulls out flaccid.)  So, she has to do all the acting, for us to even see it.

Also, I have to point out the Reality that the vast majority of porn stars, male and female, are on the Gay side of bisexual.  Look at Peter North's early career, for example.  There's exceptions, but they don't disprove the rule:  You basically can't make it in that business without sucking dick.  Even if you are a man.  Most customers don't want to think about that.

Most guys don't want to think that Sylvester "The Italian Stallion" Stallone probably gave head, to get his big break.

[MintJulie]

Men don't have Heads in porn.  They have a dick, and a cum shot.  They're not even playing a character.  Their Role is a dildo.  Even in a gangbang.  Obviously, it's so that he can imagine that's his dick, fucking her. 

So that men viewing the pictures can imagine it is they who is in the picture?   
That is interesting.  I never really thought about it.  And to be honest, I had never really noticed that the men's faces are not in many of the images.  But now that it's been brought to my attention, OMG, yes, just the last 20 or so pictures posted with a male and female in a sexual act are almost all like that.  Very interesting.

So, do you guys imagine it's you?

I will confess to imagining myself in place of the female model a few times. Rarely, but I have.   Oddly, I very rarely do this with pictures of women having sex with men.  But I have where a woman might be doing something that I've never done before and likely never will, mainly some of the bondage images.   Another would be 3 women together.  Again, never done it in RL, but I woo'd this image last week for that very reason. 

[MissBarbara]

I've heard that is done so the male viewer can imagine he's the one doing the fucking.  Any thoughts on that?

That's my impression as well. I can only watch a "straight" porn gif or video for about 30 seconds before I start laughing. The entire focus is on either the guy's dick or the woman's vagina. But your explanation sounds reasonable.

It also explains why "lesbian" strap-on gifs and videos appeal almost exclusively to men. They picture themselves as the one "fucking" the woman, and giving her the pleasure she's portraying.

Then again, your question would be most appropriately answered by a man...

[psiberzerker]

I will confess to imagining myself in place of the female model a few times...  Another would be 3 women together.

A nice thing for the ladies, where you've got a Blond, a Brunette, and a Redhead.  Hopefully with 3 different figures, or even better Interracial, is as a woman you can put yourself in one of their places.  You have all these options, and best of all, all 3 of them have Heads which come into frame at odd intervals.

Obviously, not all men want to imagine themselves in there.  Their enormous pornstar cock making her moan and shake with each powerful thrust, or they would never be interested in Lesbian (Or "Lesbian") porn.  Without any dicks in it.  So, it's probably not the sole motive, the only fantasy.  It just seems to be a fairly common one pornographers cater to, while sometimes, guys just want to watch.

It's also possible that if there's a guy, with a face, and expressions in there too much, it might start to feel a little gay.  Like a 3some.  "It's not gay if you don't look at my dick" doesn't really apply when you're watching videos on the internet, but yeah.  This might be a question better asked in the other thread.

[psiberzerker]

This just in!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2z2lTUR5Ao