Allegations and sexual assault

[RopeFiend]

Slight hijack, although related:

James Deen started porn at 18 years old, in 2004.  Within a year he was already a popular top at Kink.com (BDSM for both of you vanilla folks...)  One of James' mentors is Rocco Siffredi, a long-time producer of 'rough sex scenes'. 

Fast-forward 11 years.  He's ended a relationship with Stoya and hooked up with someone else.  On the day the new couple closes on a house together, Stoya posts a tweet that James had raped her: rough sex and didn't respect her safe word.  Within weeks 10 more porn starlets chime in, with some AMAZINGLY FUCKING WEAK lines.  Stoya never said anything else on the subject.  One of the girls said "his penis brushed her asshole while they were showering together after a porn scene".  Read that out loud to yourself.  Really??  If that counts as 'rape', then I'm a serial rapist.  If I'm showering with you, there's likely to be some sexual contact.    I'm not dead, yet.

Another said that the alleged 'rape' occurred on the set of a Kink.com shoot.  I've never been on the set, but I've watched numerous interviews where they run down a full 'limit list' of things to do and not do.  Kink is pretty serious about that.  Accidents also happen: someone forgets a hard limit in the heat of the moment.  Again, they're on a porn set and under a model's contract, with a camera person there at a minimum.  I'm thinking this one was specious as well.

Kink.com immediately dropped James, without any proof or substantiation.  Neither criminal nor civil charges have ever been filed BY ANYONE.  Eventually the hubbub died down, and Kink started allowing James to work with them again after about 18 months.

What the fuck happened here?  Stoya and Joanna Angel (both ex-girlfriends) made singular claims of 'rape' and then dropped the subject.  The cheezy news rags kept the rumors going for over a year before dropping it.  Luckily for James, his career wasn't killed, although he had to form his own production company for the first year after the allegations 'cos he was suddenly un-employable by the major firms.  For someone that has enjoyed 'agressive sex' from an early age in porn, 'rape' is going to be a common theme in his shoots.  He's done somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 porn shoots in 14 years so far, and many (or most) of them aren't all lovey-dovey.



Here's a question: HOW MANY OF YOU would like to be defined by your ex-whatever?  Isn't there a reason you're not together any longer?  Do you want them badmouthing you in public, especially when you're a public figure yourself?  How much weight do you give to the claims of a bitter ex?

BTW, I've been accused of being a rapist TWICE, and one of the times was in a restaurant on a first date.  I'd barely even touched her, and she sure as hell never saw me naked.  I haven't had ANYWHERE near as many partners as James has, and I already have 2 accusations.  What are the odds that ANY of his were truly valid, and not pure fantasy or a simple mistake on-set?

[psiberzerker]

Here's a question: HOW MANY OF YOU would like to be defined by your ex-whatever?  Isn't there a reason you're not together any longer?  Do you want them badmouthing you in public, especially when you're a public figure yourself?  How much weight do you give to the claims of a bitter ex?

Well, unfortunately, the victims don't get a choice, whether they would like to be defined as James Dean's ex-girlfriends or not.  Obviously, he's decided that because they're sex performers, that means he's entitled, to ignore safe words, and boundries, and forget why they're Ex girlfriends now, instead of his wives, and happily married.  Showering together means yes, please put your penis against my asshole, just like it does in college locker rooms, and prisons across the country.

So, I guess this question is for the men, who're defined as rapists by their ex girlfriends who decided they had enough.  And not the ex girlfriends, who are defined as sluts, and unrapable because of their pasts.  They no longer have the right to consent, legally, because they went out with James Dean.  They're nothing but a pussy, and an asshole to be used, because they made a mistake, and thought he understood the difference between rough sex, and sexual assault.

Oddly enough, people who learned so much about sex from watching porn are having trouble telling the difference, too.  Again, what do you think these women expect to gain from making false allegations?  Cheezy Lines?  They're fucking Porn Stars, would it be more believable with purple prose?

Their pasts do not define them as women who can't say no.  As women where he, or ANYONE can assume consent, because they saw them perform rough sex fantasy play before. Because they engaged in rough sex fantasy play together, or even because they dated, and lived together.  Employment at Kink.com is not immunity for them.  Or immunity for him.  

[psiberzerker]

Yes, if a man ignores a safe word once.  Just once, then he should understand that she told everyone, and none of the women that hear about it ever want to join him in the dungeon ever again.

If you steal money from the bank you work at once.  Just once, they should have the right to keep you out for the rest of your life.  that's just money, you can't replace women's lives.

That's why we have safe words.  That's why we need #MeToo.  So we can warn other women that James Dean can't tell that she's not in the mood, and this isn't a sex scene.

[RopeFiend]

This is why I brought the subject up.  It's still relevant for a bunch of us.  I'm not the only top here that enjoys 'non-consensual' play.  It's a concern for ANY top or Dom(me), male or female.

You've apparently decided that James is truly a rapist, when the ladies dropped it.  I'm also a rapist because a woman CALLED me one, without any inappropriate contact in a public restaurant on our first (and only) meet.

What part is truth, and what is either fantasy or delusion?  Did he really ignore Stoya's safe word, or is that just HER memory of the incident?  Is she just pissed because they parted ways?

One of James' accusers died a year later of a drug overdose.  How well can you trust her memory of anything, when it's doubtful that a pattern of drug use came on overnight?

Have you ever looked at multiple police reports of a single incident?  I have.  Most times you can't even tell that they're describing the same location, let alone occurrence.  Memory is an extremely malleable thing, and it changes with time.  When someone says something happened 5 years ago, I take it as a vague possibility unless there's corroborating evidence.

< this is 1408, and I'm stirring the pot... ;-) >

edit: Oh, and Joanna Angel's 'rape' report was that she woke one night and James was strangling her IN HIS SLEEP.  Fuck me...  If what you do in your sleep counts as a criminal act, then I'm in for ALL sorts of criminal lawsuits!   The shower incident was off-camera at a Kink shoot, then you have Stoya and Joanna (ex-girlfriends), and the rest were all on-set during filming, so there ought to be evidence if it's true. 

Again, neither civil nor criminal charges were ever filed, and it's now a 'dead issue'.

[_priapism]

Slight hijack, although related:

BTW, I've been accused of being a rapist TWICE, and one of the times was in a restaurant on a first date.  I'd barely even touched her, and she sure as hell never saw me naked.  I haven't had ANYWHERE near as many partners as James has, and I already have 2 accusations.  What are the odds that ANY of his were truly valid, and not pure fantasy or a simple mistake on-set?

I’ve been accused of rape once myself.  Rowdy one night stand with a co-worker.  Six months later, her boyfriend finds out about it.  So she tells him it was nonconsensual.  He calls her bluff and says, “Oh yeah, well if he raped you, I want you to file a complaint to HR at work.” And she did.  So I find myself in a meeting having to reconstruct a night of debauchery for my supervisors.  Didn’t go well for anyone.  She quit a few weeks later, and I moved elsewhere by the end of the year.  My boss advised, “Don’t shit where you eat, and don’t fuck where you make your money.”  Wisdom.

[Athos_131]

Seems someone got triggered by the current #WhyIDidntReport movement.

Victims should not be shunned because they failed to speak up in what you deem a timely manner.

If that is your philosophy get educated or get fucked.

How Stoya took on James Deen and broke the porn industry's silence

#Resist

[psiberzerker]

I’ve been accused of rape once myself.  Rowdy one night stand with a co-worker.  Six months later, her boyfriend finds out about it.  So she tells him it was nonconsensual.  He calls her bluff and says, “Oh yeah, well if he raped you, I want you to file a complaint to HR at work.” And she did.  So I find myself in a meeting having to reconstruct a night of debauchery for my supervisors.  Didn’t go well for anyone.  She quit a few weeks later, and I moved elsewhere by the end of the year.  My boss advised, “Don’t shit where you eat, and don’t fuck where you make your money.”  Wisdom.

Truly, and this is an example of a believable motive for False Allegations.  There has to be something there, other than she decided, out of the blue, to get back at men.  I'm not even saying that, there's no man haters (Honestly, there's a lot to hate) who're insane enough to put themselves through a rape trial, and risk being exposed a fraud, for an extremely slim chance to send an innocent man to prison.

I'm just saying it's got to be rare-to-unique, and the way rape trials are set up, the default defense is she's lying.  Insane, a slut that doesn't want people to think she's a slut, or got cold feet.  Buyer's remorse, take your pick, you can hear all of these excuses at the same trial, but as it stands the default way the Justice System, from police interrogation, to sentencing is to prosecute the Victims, and give the accused the benefit of the doubt.

They can't all be lying.  Not every allegation can be false, women are sexually assaulted every day, and we can't go into every single report on the assumption that she's just hysterical.

[Athos_131]

I'm just saying it's got to be rare-to-unique, and the way rape trials are set up, the default defense is she's lying.  Insane, a slut that doesn't want people to think she's a slut, or got cold feet.  Buyer's remorse, take your pick, you can hear all of these excuses at the same trial, but as it stands the default way the Justice System, from police interrogation, to sentencing is to prosecute the Victims, and give the accused the benefit of the doubt.

They can't all be lying.  Not every allegation can be false, women are sexually assaulted every day, and we can't go into every single report on the assumption that she's just hysterical.

#Resist

[psiberzerker]

You've apparently decided that James is truly a rapist, when the ladies dropped it.

Or, I'm presenting a more rational way to look at it, and you didn't read it carefully enough.  For instance, using statements like "If..."  If he ignored a safe word.  To present both sides of it, while you're prosecuting every single witness in the Court of Public Opinion:

What part is truth, and what is either fantasy or delusion?  Did he really ignore Stoya's safe word, or is that just HER memory of the incident?  Is she just pissed because they parted ways?

If he ignored a Safe Word.  Just once.

One of James' accusers died a year later of a drug overdose.  How well can you trust her memory of anything, when it's doubtful that a pattern of drug use came on overnight?

Well, you just made the legal system a lot simpler by setting the precedent that drug addicts are incapable of telling the truth, and therefore can be assumed to always be lying, or their memory is intrinsically fallible.  Also, a convenient way to get rid of victims is to drug them, so they can't say no, can't fight back, and with any luck, forgot the incident happened.  Side effects of Rohypnol include memory loss, was she on Rohypnol at the time?  

"She was high" is not any more an affirmative defense than "I was drunk." or sexual assault in Self Defense.  You can be high, and tell the truth.  In fact, what did she OD on?  What she died from, or was addicted to, AFTER she reported the incident has no bearing of her memory of said incident.

Have you ever looked at multiple police reports of a single incident?  I have.  Most times you can't even tell that they're describing the same location, let alone occurrence.  Memory is an extremely malleable thing, and it changes with time.  When someone says something happened 5 years ago, I take it as a vague possibility unless there's corroborating evidence.

Yes, I have.  However, you are still giving the benefit of ever doubt to James Dean, based on the fact that he's a BDSM porn star, and you want to believe it.  You haven't presented anything more substantial than basically porn stars don't know what sexual abuse feels like, or He Said/she's dead.

[psiberzerker]

Honestly, you're going to have to present some motive for all these women, reporting the same guy, in an industry like BDSM porn.  She can't tell the difference between rough sex, and assault won't fly.  Fame and Fortune are not viable motives when they're Porn Stars, and neither is hating men because they're men, and want to have sex with them.

That only leaves sheer insanity, in which case more than 1 man would have been reported in a single place with multiple hysterical wimmins working there.  Anyone else reported at Kink.Com?  No?  Then the problem has to be the common thread, and not the 3 women who're insane, can't remember sexual action reliably, (While continuing to work in a sex industry without incident) and yet remarkably consistent.  Unless you can come up with a motive why they conspired to defame him specifically, and nobody else.  

Also, you're a Dom, and you knew going in that rape allegations was a risk of being a dom.  Sexual assault is a risk of being women.  Rather than attacking women for being sexually assaulted (Because he's a Dom) you might want to see to it that less of them think it's carte blance to sexually assault women, because they're quote "Submissive." /quote.

They make you look bad.

[Athos_131]

What kind of person makes false rape accusations?

#Resist

[psiberzerker]

Oh my god, what an absolutely horrible article!  "Men's lives ruined by their malicious lies."  It actually says that.  Also "Blurrs the lines of consent."  There's that "For attention" motive again.  The attention you get from making an allegation is not a motive, it's a DETERRENT.  Everyone does everything in their power to punish victims for making an allegation.  Even if it's true, you will be stripped, examined, questioned, accused, then questioned again, just to make sure you don't ruin some poor man's life before the first Charges are filed.  (Incidentally, it doesn't ruin that many lives.)

True|False.

Yes|No.

There's no blurring there.  Either it's consent, or it isn't.  "Maybe later" means no.  

[RopeFiend]

I never heard the term 'safe word' until sometime in the early 2000s.  When I first started, bondage was VERY under-cover.  The magazines were behind the counter in porn shops, or under the counter.  No such thing as "Kink 101" literature existed for decades, so we made up our own systems.  Hell, I never knew dungeons existed until the mid-2000s.  Before that it was just people's homes used for play spaces.

On 'malleable memory', here's a post from the Kink forums immediately AFTER one of the events that was reported (years later) as 'rape'.  Read the first post.  It's not long.
http://web.archive.org/web/20110401232620/http://forum.kink.com:80/message/116817

Kink has since deleted that thread, for reasons of their own.  Reading it through, it doesn't appear that Nicki Blue got the raw end of the deal, more that she later mis-remembered the scene or twisted it.  Maybe I'm confused, but it sure sounded like she enjoyed herself!

I looked at the reports back when they were first 'claimed', and there were a couple of cases of abuse or excessive force that James did.  In one shoot he hit the actress in the jaw hard enough to cause it to lock (I couldn't tell if it was intentional).  They stopped the shoot at that point and took her to Urgent Care.  On another he was ... OVERZEALOUS in his anal penetration and tore the lower intestinal lining, and they shut that one down as well and took her to the medics.  That was the only two solid complaints I could find, but neither one was 'rape', just excessive force.  Calling that 'rape' just makes me disbelieve anything the gals might have followed it with.

However, they weren't all like that, and some of the claims were obviously bogus.  Again, he's done 2000 to 3000 shoots during his career, so it's not surprising that some of them went a bit pear-shaped.  Kink's dungeon (The Armory) is a money-making business, and they won't allow shit to go down that will get them sued or shut down if they can help it.  

As far as Stoya, I'd believe 'crazy bitch ex' before I'd believe the rape story.  Note that she doesn't say that James did NOT stop after she purportedly called out their safe word.  If she's vindictive, the easiest way to hurt a Dom is to put out a 'rape' report.  It worked, almost.

BTW, I'm mostly a top, not a Dom.  I don't have the right mind-set for a Dominant.

[psiberzerker]

BTW, I'm mostly a top, not a Dom.  I don't have the right mind-set for a Dominant.

My mistake.  Also, that link is 404.  You said that took it down, so okay, but still.  Facts not in evidence, and also anectdotal.  A prior false accusation isn't Double Jeopardy.  It doesn't mean he's incapable of sexual assault.

They can't all be lying, and the odds of "Malleable Memory," happening 3 times, consistently without it happening to more than one person under the same ubiquitous circumstances are still astronomical.

Unreasonable Doubt.  You're still finding every possible way to believe him, and convict his accusers, who aren't on trial here.  If you can't find any theory of the crime other than 3 women are lying, and he's telling the truth, than just admit you don't know, because I see no evidence here.  Only laughable theories of the crime, of Perjury.  (3 counts, three criminals.)

Making an accusation, true or false is already treated as a crime, and guys like this are still giving tops like you a bad name.

[Athos_131]

Oh my god, what an absolutely horrible article!  "Men's lives ruined by their malicious lies."  It actually says that.  Also "Blurrs the lines of consent."  There's that "For attention" motive again.  The attention you get from making an allegation is not a motive, it's a DETERRENT.  Everyone does everything in their power to punish victims for making an allegation.  Even if it's true, you will be stripped, examined, questioned, accused, then questioned again, just to make sure you don't ruin some poor man's life before the first Charges are filed.  (Incidentally, it doesn't ruin that many lives.)

True|False.

Yes|No.

There's no blurring there.  Either it's consent, or it isn't.  "Maybe later" means no.  

I should probably provide some extra context.

https://twitter.com/sannewman/status/1041709681989836801

#Resist

[RopeFiend]

No, EVERYONE has 'malleable memory', your august self included.  You remember what you want to think happened, not what actually occurred.  If you have photographic memory, then that 'malleable memory' doesn't apply.  Most of us don't: it's a rare talent.

I'm not saying James is guilt-free, but I don't see a single shred of evidence to support the claim of 'rape'.  A tweet doesn't cut it, sorry, that sounds more like vindictive bitch ex.  If I suspected him of rape, I'd never view another video that he stars in.  Such is not the case for me at the moment.

edit: that's weird, the Wayback machine works for me... here's a screencap (click for full-screen):



Taking that one as a 'false accusation', at a minimum the original 10 reports drops to 6 (and I'm including the accidental? shower as one of the 6).

[Athos_131]

that sounds more like vindictive bitch ex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Deen#Rape_and_sexual_misconduct_allegations

7 other ladies are "vindictive bitch ex"?

[RopeFiend]

Wiki is written by assholes like you and I, it's not guaranteed to be anything but someone's words.

Let The Reader Beware.  Your Mileage May Vary.

[Athos_131]

Wiki is written by assholes like you and I, it's not guaranteed to be anything but someone's words.

Let The Reader Beware.  Your Mileage May Vary.

Very well.

How Stoya took on James Deen and broke the porn industry's silence

In the few days since Stoya’s tweets, eight other women have also gone public. Tori Lux, Ashley Fires, Amber Rayne, Kora Peters, Nicki Blue, Lily LaBeau, and a woman writing as T.M., all say Deen has assaulted them, too. In the aftermath of those allegations, Deen’s career is crumbling. (He has not commented on any of them, to any of the outlets that have approached him.) Porn companies severed ties and website The Frisky killed his column for ever. Fans razed his GIFs from Tumblr. A sex toy in his likeness was pulled from production.

On 2 December, Joanna Angel spoke out about Deen, using a radio appearance to accuse Deen of assaulting her multiple times, and saying that once she thought to herself, “I am going to die here.

You're right, wikipedia was wrong.

It was 8 ladies.

#Resist

[RopeFiend]

I remember 10 total that people were crying over.

The two 'abuse' or 'excessive force' cases cut it to 8.  The one I posted knocks that to 7.  Joanna Angel's account couldn't possibly be called 'rape' by even a wildly insane court, so 6.  The others I couldn't research... no source for corroboration or refute.

edit: James is back working for Kink (note my earlier comment about them not wanting to be sued), so either they believe him or else they have a DM there during his shoots to insure that it stays consensual-nonconsent.

Stoya is the only one I'd call vindictive.  If you've never had a vindictive ex, see this:
http://www.kristensboard.com/forums/index.php?topic=22548.0
Even in OUR small community, it happens.  I've met a lot of disturbed people in my life, and thankfully never dated any of 'em.
(edit: God only knows about the one that ghosted on me...)