Remembering 9/11

[Katiebee]

They are jealous, and want everyone to have their belief system because they are miserable in it and are very insecure in their own faith.

That's my simplistic reason, and I'm happy to propagate it widely.

[joan1984]

It is a matter of priorities. We need to kill them, make them stop. End their ability to perform the offensive behavior, whatever it takes.

Then leave the "why do they hate us" for the Historians to research, so we can learn to recognize for the future, and preemptive kill those Trogs before they can harm us.

What is not needed is some "bottom up" history story/lecture told in present and near future time to our young, that complicates our necessary uber violent response to violence used against us in recent and present time. When they are gone, is soon enough...

It really does not matter WHY terrorists hate us.

I think it is absolutely VITAL that we understand why terrorists hate us. This matters more than just about anything else.

[watcher1]

They are jealous, and want everyone to have their belief system because they are miserable in it and are very insecure in their own faith.

That's my simplistic reason, and I'm happy to propagate it widely.

I don't think they are miserable in their beliefs but they do hate anything that is of the West.  Don't think it is too hard to figure why certain groups hate us because we are not going to change and they are not so pretty much a stand off there.  But why are youths from the West going over to their side to fight? Like stepping back in time.

Katie, what else are you happy to propagate? 

[anvil]

I remember 911 as if it were yesterday.

I still cry.

Bush declared war on bin laden

He should have declared war on al qaeda and all acts of terrorism should have the same status.

I have no doubt that between our military and civilian intelligence (?) that we knew where many of their training,supply,communication centers are as well as many individuals.

Within 48 hours they should have been taken out. This should have continued 'til bin laden was finished.

A suicide bomber may seek death and glory by murdering innocents, but I doubt they would seek it knowing there was a pretty good chance they wouldn't survive training.

That's the only way to deal with terrorism.

We did not do this before 911, because of 911, nor Benghazi (another terrorist attack on US soil).

Ironically, the day before the anniversary of 911 Obama, because of the horrid murder of two newspaper reporters, created an anti terrorist policy that approaches what is needed.

To mourn this day by itself plays into the hands of terrorists.  with proper and immediate retaliation to any and every act of terrorism, It stands as a warning.

To have a policy of 0 tolerance long before the Coe would have been a strong deterrent to any acts of terrorism.

Terrorism in this part of the world has been happening since Ali Baba and the 40 thieves.



 

[Well Behaved Lady]

The world will never forget.

[MissBarbara]

The world will never forget.

I agree.

P.S. Whatever happened to Anvil? I enjoyed reading his thoughts, regardless of whether I agreed with them.

[anvil]

Thanks for asking MissB! My thoughts are the same... and missed likewise.

It's been a very crazy spring thru fall. I had a great opportunity to restore an old barn. My blacksmith shop down below and build a funky studio loft above. I was 95% moved and it fell thru. Trust that moving a blacksmith shop is a major undertaking!

Another place came up,involving me in a therapy project concerning disabled vets, smithing,  log cabin building and more.

after 6 weeks the living situation/shop fell thru. Shesh but at least I hadn't moved my stuff. The VA part is still pending.

I'm now finishing up a metal building on the place I've been for the last few years and next week is "move the stuff" week. Just in time for winter.

I'm exhausted, but elated as well.

again, thanks for asking.

[Shiela_M]

I was 16.  I had just gotten done with swimming practice right before first period.  Was walking through the hall when rumors started spreading about a plane crashing into the WTC.  My first thought was, how do you not see those big building and crash into it.  Then people started crowding into classes with tv and teachers were telling us to stay calm.  Then an announcement came over the loud speaker for everybody to make their way to the auditorium, and gymnasium.  Nobody moved we were all stuck to these tvs and others listening to radios.  Finally all the teachers started herding us to he gym and such.  We were there for about an hour listening to announcements and plans, nobody went anywhere.  Finally they started sending us home.  People who drove were asked to stay until those who road busses left.  I went left with my friend who drove.  We went to her house because my stepdad was still home and I didn't feel like being alone with him

I sat around with my friends family watching the news and trying to stay calm.  Then her dad jumped up and started going through his stuff looking for work gloves, boots, thick sturdy work clothes, anything he could find that might come in handy. Then I went with then to the store, bought up some water, canned goods, more clothes and boots, and loaded up a trailer with anything he could find that he thought would be helpful.  He parked it and on the 13th he drove it to a location set up by Schneider who donated a truck for donations.  They loaded 3 huge semi trailers full of stuff people were donating.

I think I cried for three days straight watching all these people come together for the same cause.  And I was embarrassed because my mother and stepdad didn't do anything.  If we lived in New York then maybe they would have care... maybe.  Horrible creatures those two are.  I have ever since called my friends dad my second dad, or dad 2.0. I was so inspired by him.  He is a great man, and so are all those others who came together in times of need.

[_priapism]

Memory eternal.

[msslave]

Today is the anniversary of 9/11. Seems the further we get from a major event like that the more.our memories fade.

I'd forgot about it until I was tasked with finding this thread.

Now that I write about it the horrible visions of that come back so clearly.

Wife and I were getting ready to go to work. I had a home delivery meat business. When the TV news said that the first tower had been hit the news people thought it was a horrible accident. Then I watched the second plane hit the other tower and we were under attack. The Pentagon and the crash in Pennsylvania rounded out that doy of terror.

Many heroes that day. I remember the air traffic controllers. They did the impossible job of landing All the planes in the air safely.

I've always loved airplanes. If one is going over my eyes go to the sky. With the planes grounded for several days, the skies never looked so empty.
 

[Pornhubby]

Memory eternal.

Memory eternal.

[Valley Vixin]

I am not an American, lets get that straight right off.

9-11 really doesn't affect us the way it does you.  I am from a military family and in 2001 was just out of the army my first time.  For the record, the World Trade Center is a legitimate target of war.  The corporations in that building decide what governments get toppled, what countries get bombed.  I did my time with the UN, largely cleaning up the messes made by the US and European corporations and governments toppling anyone who got in the way of third world resources being exploited for First World profit, not the people whose land is being looted.

We support whoever will back us looting them to the eye teeth.  These are not nice people.   In a cost cutting measure, the US decided to help set up madrassa, religous schools in Afghanistan run by sword scroll radical islamists to churn out endless disposable drones to fight the godless communists, then when they did drive the Soviets out, we went in thinking somehow the religious fanatics we created and armed, and taught to beat the KGB in the triangle trade of drugs, guns and cash, could now be controlled.

I grew up, like most people my age, seeing airlines hijacked (remember Pan Am?) for political reasons.  They get flown to some communist dictatorship and everyone negotiates for return, and much publicity is gained.  At the same time, we see groups like the Tamil Tigers boarding a train at one end and killing their way to the other.  The point was to make a body count, not a photo op.  In Canada, we saw Sikh extremist place a bomb on Air Canada's Flight 182 to London, killing hundreds.  Pan Am Flight 103 from Frankfurt to Detroit exploded over Lockerbie in 1988 thanks to Lybian terrorists, so it already happened to you, you just got to forget because the corpses fell on someone else's soil and sea.

Only the US thought the planes could not be a weapon.  Only the US thought it couldn't happen here.  Shit the US carried out airstrikes on a daily basis in the Middle East since the 1950's, and the dead, maimed, and survivors of those made fertile recruitment ground for terrorist cells.  The Gulf War never ended, the period of active air actions and economic blockades enforced by navy and air assest they could never match had been going on as long as anyone could remember.  They didn't have Tomcats or Eagles.  Shit they didn't even have Migs.  What they had were generations of young men trained in schools we had the Saudi's set up and run, funded by drug/gun/money smuggling rings the CIA helped train them to get past the most comprehensive intelligence gathering organization ever built, the KGB.

I was on River Road, about ten minutes from work when the first plane went in.  I remeber thinking, shit, they finally did it.  I laughed when the second one came in, because the news was still peddling accident. You don't fly into the world trade center by accident.  I got home to a phone call from my former Regimental Orderly Room updating my activation report location, confirming my address, and confirming my kit status.  Just in case they had to call me up with the first recall activation tier.

For the record, the war against Afghanistan needed to happen. They struck against US cities and caused mass casualties using civilian aircraft.  If that would be allowed, what followed would harm the future of world trade and all of our lives.  The Taliban needed Afghanistan as a base to overthrow Pakistan and get Medium Range Nuclear weapons.  That would be bad.  Going after Iraq for the same excuse?  A pointless loss of a lot of lives to sooth presidential ego.

I remember 9-11, but not like you do.  To you it was a shock and a horror.  To me? It was just Monday.

[purpleshoes]

I remember 9-11, but not like you do.  To you it was a shock and a horror.  To me? It was just Monday.

Not that it makes any difference, but September 11 was a Tuesday in 2001.

Let me start by saying I appreciate your candor in providing a different viewpoint.

I won't deny or debate any of your assertions, but I think most Americans find sneak attacks to be cowardly, and equates them to an unprovoked act of war. Japan learned that lesson the hard way sixty-some years ago, but at least it attacked a military facility.

When thousands of innocent citizens are killed in such an attack, that type of aggression is inexcusable. The World Trade Center was not by any definition a military facility, and passengers on the planes were civilians.

Even in wartime there are rules of engagement that civilized countries abide by. If another country has a problem with this country, it should declare its intentions and we'll go from there.

[MissBarbara]

I remember 9-11, but not like you do.  To you it was a shock and a horror.  To me? It was just Monday.

Not that it makes any difference, but September 11 was a Tuesday in 2001.

Let me start by saying I appreciate your candor in providing a different viewpoint.

I won't deny or debate any of your assertions, but I think most Americans find sneak attacks to be cowardly, and equates them to an unprovoked act of war. Japan learned that lesson the hard way sixty-some years ago, but at least it attacked a military facility.

When thousands of innocent citizens are killed in such an attack, that type of aggression is inexcusable. The World Trade Center was not by any definition a military facility, and passengers on the planes were civilians.

Even in wartime there are rules of engagement that civilized countries abide by. If another country has a problem with this country, it should declare its intentions and we'll go from there.

Great points -- all of them.

While we Americans -- and others throughout the world -- overly focus on the symbolic nature of the attacks, the attackers themselves did not. Based on what they said and wrote, their main goal was not to protest the presences of westerners in and near their holy sites, it was not to object to military incursions in their countries, it was not to rail against the freedoms this country grants -- especially the freedoms that women and people of other religions (or no religion) enjoy, and it was not to protest the corporatization of the American government.

It was, to quote the OP,  "to make a body count, not a photo op." They wanted to kill as many people as possible. On a given weekday, there were around 50,000 people working in the WTC Towers, and the planners and attackers were hoping for a body count close to 50,000.

[Shiela_M]

I deployed to Afghanistan when I was 18. We ran a detainment center for captured terrorists. We fed them, gave them water, a place to sleep and blanket, and made sure they weren't too hot or too cold.  These same terrorists kidnap people who work on or with us, and then beheaded them with dull knives.  I know this because they tell us this during interrogations. I got along well with an interpreter during my deployment, and he and his sons were all taken and executed. This mans wife had to beg in the street for food and money because women are not allowed to work in their country.

We had one prisoner who said he would happily kill 50 or 100 of his own people just to kill one American.

I was 16 when the attacks happened and i was trying to figure out a way to get away from my mother and her family. When I watched those videos of the towers burning, and that woman, who in one last act of decency, held her skirt down as she jumped to her death, I knew I was going to be like a lot of my classmates and join the military.

I'm not going to make claims to what corporations and governments may do, whether factual or biased propaganda, to straight up internet lies, but i know in my heart that the mass majority of people killed in 9/11 were just normal people making a living. This was a monstrous act of violence just for the joy of killing.

[Valley Vixin]

I deployed to Afghanistan when I was 18. We ran a detainment center for captured terrorists. We fed them, gave them water, a place to sleep and blanket, and made sure they weren't too hot or too cold.  These same terrorists kidnap people who work on or with us, and then beheaded them with dull knives.  I know this because they tell us this during interrogations. I got along well with an interpreter during my deployment, and he and his sons were all taken and executed. This mans wife had to beg in the street for food and money because women are not allowed to work in their country.

We had one prisoner who said he would happily kill 50 or 100 of his own people just to kill one American.

I was 16 when the attacks happened and i was trying to figure out a way to get away from my mother and her family. When I watched those videos of the towers burning, and that woman, who in one last act of decency, held her skirt down as she jumped to her death, I knew I was going to be like a lot of my classmates and join the military.

I'm not going to make claims to what corporations and governments may do, whether factual or biased propaganda, to straight up internet lies, but i know in my heart that the mass majority of people killed in 9/11 were just normal people making a living. This was a monstrous act of violence just for the joy of killing.

Agreed.

The war in Afghanistan was justified.  That said. In no way did their actions towards us indicate a change except in success.  Nor was it any different then how they treat each other.

It was just a day ending in y.  They hate. They kill. They don't have any room for a world with anything else.

9-11 changed nothing. Only the US had been asleep.  The rest of the world had always lived with this reality.  The justifications for ideological terrorism change with fashion, but the song and steps of the dance are the same. Hate can't sway the people with their song , then they will stampede them with fear. If they are allowed to, they win. If you pay the price every day without giving in to the trap of trading freedom for protection then you can win.

Two short ways to lose. A long painful price to pay for simply defending a freedom that will never be safe.

Our internal enemies sing the same song, dance the same dance. Only fear of reprisal keeps them less savage in methods.

[Pornhubby]

Our internal enemies sing the same song, dance the same dance. Only fear of reprisal keeps them less savage in methods.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton won his impeachment trial in the GOP controlled Senate on Friday. He’s won office three times, despite being under indictment for securities fraud. And he is now being prosecuted by the FBI for bribery and graft. So there’s “no fear of reprisal” if you’re on the right side of the aisle. Literally and figuratively. Otherwise, “you’re hurting the wrong people.”