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Author Topic: how do we fix this ?  (Read 148 times)
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eater
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« on: October 07, 2020, 07:53:28 AM »

one problem I see is that the same Algorithms that try to sell you things you have talked or read about before are sending you info that reflects the opinions you already hold. this creates a loop of one sided derangement syndrome that repeats itself until you are firmly entrenched in your perception that you are 'right' or 'on the good side' of any discussion regardless of truth,evidence,or real proof.
this type of tech snafu causes convoluted thoughts and emotional conclusions that bring out negative emotions and anger because both sides of any opinion are driven farther apart the more they seek to prove they are the ones 'correct'
Until both sides understand this and remove the influence of the internet from their lives it will continue to produce worse and worse divisions in a populous until it is manifested in actual physical violence,rioting and even death.Some small nations have already disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry,homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees.

HOW DO WE FIX THIS?

older people who grew up without internet and still only use it for emails and such,if at all, are baffled by peoples behavior these days.if you talk with grandma and grandpa you will get insight into how much at a loss they are to understand whats gone wrong with peoples minds...but also see very clearly what is causing it---"why don't they just turn that darn 'puter thing off !

what are you ideas on this?
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2020, 08:39:04 AM »

It isn't "the internet", it is one particular part of the internet - the social media echo chamber.  Use social media to help connect with your real-life friends, but go to real news sites if you want news and find an open forum if you want to talk politics.  Though I suppose there hasn't been a truly open forum since usenet faded into obscurity.
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MissBarbara
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2020, 03:41:36 PM »


Until both sides understand this and remove the influence of the internet from their lives it will continue to produce worse and worse divisions in a populous until it is manifested in actual physical violence,rioting and even death.Some small nations have already disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry,homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees.


Name one nation that, due to social media obfuscation, has "disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry, homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees."

Ironically, KB is a social media site, and since you have posted dozens and dozens of opinion-based rants here, you are part of the same problem you decry.




HOW DO WE FIX THIS?

older people who grew up without internet and still only use it for emails and such,if at all, are baffled by peoples behavior these days.if you talk with grandma and grandpa you will get insight into how much at a loss they are to understand whats gone wrong with peoples minds...but also see very clearly what is causing it---"why don't they just turn that darn 'puter thing off !

what are you ideas on this?


We explain to "older people" that social media sites are only one tiny part of what the "darn 'puter thing" can provide them access to. If they want hard, objective information on which to form intelligent and fact-based opinions, the "darn 'puter thing" can provide them with information that was unavailable to them when they -- and everyone else -- was younger.




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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2020, 04:18:09 PM »

It isn't "the internet", it is one particular part of the internet - the social media echo chamber.  Use social media to help connect with your real-life friends, but go to real news sites if you want news and find an open forum if you want to talk politics.  Though I suppose there hasn't been a truly open forum since usenet faded into obscurity.

go to real news sites if you want news,

 but dont they all really just give you an opinion of whats news and whats not,by what they report on and what they ignore... and dont they give that chosen sample of news with an opinion blended in or lean the story one way or the other to try to nudge your conclusion.much like a social site or op-ed piece?
the effect is the same,its like an algorithm too in a way. where do you find pure news,where they just say what happened and thats all, like- only the facts ma'am, just the facts.
and leave it up to the viewer to decide 'who dunnit"

'
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2020, 04:47:02 PM »


Until both sides understand this and remove the influence of the internet from their lives it will continue to produce worse and worse divisions in a populous until it is manifested in actual physical violence,rioting and even death.Some small nations have already disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry,homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees.


Name one nation that, due to social media obfuscation, has "disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry, homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees."

Ironically, KB is a social media site, and since you have posted dozens and dozens of opinion-based rants here, you are part of the same problem you decry.




HOW DO WE FIX THIS?

older people who grew up without internet and still only use it for emails and such,if at all, are baffled by peoples behavior these days.if you talk with grandma and grandpa you will get insight into how much at a loss they are to understand whats gone wrong with peoples minds...but also see very clearly what is causing it---"why don't they just turn that darn 'puter thing off !

what are you ideas on this?


We explain to "older people" that social media sites are only one tiny part of what the "darn 'puter thing" can provide them access to. If they want hard, objective information on which to form intelligent and fact-based opinions, the "darn 'puter thing" can provide them with information that was unavailable to them when they -- and everyone else -- was younger.






 you have posted dozens and dozens of opinion-based rants here?..I post facts not opinion

your grandpa and grandma must be very different than the ones i had !

me : " but grandpa ,social media sites are only one tiny part of what the "darn 'puter thing" can provide you access to. If you want hard, objective information on which....."

Grandpa : " I don't give a farts ass! turn that crap box off and get outside and do some real cotton pickin life crap !"
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2020, 06:24:12 PM »


go to real news sites if you want news,

 but dont they all really just give you an opinion of whats news and whats not,by what they report on and what they ignore... and dont they give that chosen sample of news with an opinion blended in or lean the story one way or the other to try to nudge your conclusion.much like a social site or op-ed piece?
the effect is the same,its like an algorithm too in a way. where do you find pure news,where they just say what happened and thats all, like- only the facts ma'am, just the facts.
and leave it up to the viewer to decide 'who dunnit"
'

Sites, plural.  Not just one.
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2020, 08:57:28 PM »

Many don't understand the diffference between facts and opinion.  The OP is one of those.
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2020, 03:33:23 AM »


Until both sides understand this and remove the influence of the internet from their lives it will continue to produce worse and worse divisions in a populous until it is manifested in actual physical violence,rioting and even death.Some small nations have already disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry,homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees.


Name one nation that, due to social media obfuscation, has "disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry, homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees."

.











Fake news and manipulated social media played a major role in the toppling of governments in Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, and Kyrgyzstan. Much the same way george soros manipulated and “broke” the British pound. Soros, who has bankrolled the violent Black Lives Matter and Occupy Wall Street called America “the main obstacle to a stable and just world order” and hailed Communist China for having “a better-functioning government than the United States.”The preeminent funder of the Left in the U.S. who gives so much money to Democrats that “Saturday Night Live” once mockingly referred to him as the “owner” of the Democratic Party. What Soros really wants is political indoctrination. Just look at who runs his massive philanthropy that will be cutting the checks. He has teemed with and bought off many top social media site owners wreaking havoc on the Malaysian ringgit, and was called an “economic war criminal” in Thailand, and he has his sights set on the US now.The anti-American financier George Soros recently unveiled a scheme to sink $1 billion into a new global university to fight nationalism in the United States and the billionaire secretly funding a lawsuit to take down a news outlet may be a new way of using money to influence the media business, billionaires have long exerted influence on the news simply by owning U.S. media outlets.
Massive corporations dominate the U.S. media landscape. Through a history of mergers and acquisitions, these companies have concentrated their control over what we see, hear and read.
  Independent media ought to be telling the truth about things that matter. That’s quite different from the task of the commercial media. They have a task. They’re supposed to be objective, and objectivity has a meaning in the world of journalism. In fact, it’s taught in journalism schools. Objectivity means reporting honestly and accurately what’s going on within the Beltway, inside the government. So that sets the bounds.
 There are Democrats and there are Republicans. Report honestly what they’re saying—balance and so on—and then you’re objective. If you go beyond that and you ask a question about the bounds, then you’re biased, subjective, emotional, maybe anti-American like we have been seeing now.
   He started with funding the Occupy Movement and has since branched off into facebook, youtube and other web media with full support of the leaders of many internet social media owners and CEO's.The Occupy tactic was a remarkably successful tactic. If I’d been asked a month before Zuccotti Park whether to do this, I would have said, you’re crazy. But it worked extremely well.
  It just lighted a fire all over the place. People were just waiting for something to light the spark. And it was extremely successful, but it’s a tactic, and tactics are not strategies. A tactic has a half-life; it has diminishing returns. And in particular, a tactic like this is going to arouse antagonism, because people don’t want their lives disrupted and so on. It will be easy to fan it the way you do with public workers. So it’s a tactic that had to be revised. Frankly, when the police broke the occupations up, it was harsh and brutal and didn’t have to be done like that. But in some ways, it wasn’t a bad thing, because it turned people to what they have to do next,go after pro-American and nationist leaders and patriotic groups and paint them in a bad light in the minds of the left to cause turmoil and hate of the right and disrupt presidential power to help weaken the United States from within.
 "A war of distraction is underway, media is the weapon, and our minds are the battlefield. With the help of some well placed Algorithms and billions of dollars to fund the plan nobody will know what is happening and half of America will hate the other half, setting the stage".
Soon we will have the very rich funding groups like antifa (a not yet well know violent group) and Black Lives Matter,a group that began as an honest protest for equal rights before the big money swooped in and took control. There's nothing the people or government can do to stop it, nobody will even understand what's going on until it's too late.
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2020, 03:43:10 AM »


Until both sides understand this and remove the influence of the internet from their lives it will continue to produce worse and worse divisions in a populous until it is manifested in actual physical violence,rioting and even death.Some small nations have already disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry,homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees.


Name one nation that, due to social media obfuscation, has "disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry, homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees."

.











theres a lot of researching history and study involved in my opinion and digging into psychology and media and cell phone addiction and interconnecting ties between some social media owners and the very wealthy as well as political figures. i didnt just spout off some crazy theory out of the blue. you can listen to what i have to say or ignore it thats your choice. i dont hate anyone and i am not angry at you for being a democrat,i was one before.I'm not looking for a fight, just trying to share something i feel is important. to all of us.

why do you and a few others in here have to come back at me with anger every time, RELAX, I'm American too.We're just sharing things here..
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2020, 03:50:01 AM »

Many don't understand the diffference between facts and opinion.  The OP is one of those.

my opinion is formed from facts, to disentangle my opinion from facts is impossible and why would you want me to ?
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2020, 05:26:37 AM »

 emot_laughing emot_laughing emot_laughing emot_laughing emot_laughing emot_laughing
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2020, 03:29:15 PM »

Here is your original assertion:


Until both sides understand this and remove the influence of the internet from their lives it will continue to produce worse and worse divisions in a populous until it is manifested in actual physical violence,rioting and even death.Some small nations have already disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry,homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees.


When I asked for examples of tis happening in real life, you responded:


Fake news and manipulated social media played a major role in the toppling of governments in Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, and Kyrgyzstan.


Speaking of fake news, take Kyrgyzstan.

Kyrgyzstan is a nation that has been beset by political and regional strife since the late 1990s -- long before social media even existed, and about a decade before smartphones became widely available. Violent protests, especially in the nation's capital, have sprung up periodically every four or five years since the 1990s, and they are occurring again today.

Sooronbai Jeenbekov, the president of Kyrgyzstan, was democratically elected in 2017, and he remains in power as of this writing. Despite the protests and some acts of violence, the nation has not disintegrated into chaos, nor have the political struggles "left untold millions hungry, homeless, and doomed to live out their lives as refugees."

Your main point was that the internet is somehow responsible for the political problems and strife you outlined, but the plain fact is that nation's have been beset by internal struggles and civil wars that have caused devastating consequence for the populace since the dawn of humanity. It's an historical reality. But please stop blaming the internet. After all, the U.S. fought a bloody four-year civil war that resulted in the deaths of at least 800,000 Americans, and neither the internet nor social media played the slightest role in causing that conflict.




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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2020, 03:44:02 PM »

I’m going to agree with eater on this to a degree.

Prior to the internet most people who managed to get something printed and read had some credibility in what they were writing; again, I say most.  And those that read the printed word took some effort to do so; they bought books or newspapers, and they tended to be educated and interested in what was true regardless of how that truth made them feel.  Social media makes it easier for lazy readers to read.  And lazy readers tend to believe what they want to believe without any credibility threshold or interest in real fact checking.  And any fuckwad can write something on the internet.

But the solution isn’t banning the internet or censoring it, it’s better education.
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2020, 01:57:37 AM »

I’m going to agree with eater on this to a degree.

Prior to the internet most people who managed to get something printed and read had some credibility in what they were writing; again, I say most.  And those that read the printed word took some effort to do so; they bought books or newspapers, and they tended to be educated and interested in what was true regardless of how that truth made them feel.  Social media makes it easier for lazy readers to read.  And lazy readers tend to believe what they want to believe without any credibility threshold or interest in real fact checking.  And any fuckwad can write something on the internet.

But the solution isn’t banning the internet or censoring it, it’s better education.

i agree that education and laziness is a big part of the problem but i also see some role parents play in this. our original ideals and political leaning or interest at all used to come from parents, and along with it came a certain measure of balance and discretion if not respect. the breakdown of the family and lack of supervision since cell phones and the internet is allowing kids and younger adults to get deeply into opinions of others with no parental guidance, where before the kids would leave the room or adults didnt get into things in front of kids, at least until they had a chance to tell them separately what its about,with balance,and share their opinions and views along side of "the story".
when my oldest was growing up i used to answer his questions by telling him whats "the story" telling one side then the other and end by telling him "my view" which was usually part of one side and part of the other side.
and colleges used to do similar in educating, as well as news anchors reporting.
now nothing is like that. everything is extreme one side or the other, the unbiased or balanced does not exist anymore, and too many parents are not there to insert the diplomacy.
either because of broken families or just from kids and parents living totally disconnected lives.coming and going from the same house but not even really 'knowing' each other.
look at the families in public sitting in places while they are all on their phone and not even talking to each other. surely if they do that while 'out together' its even worse at home.
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2020, 04:12:09 AM »

Here is your original assertion:


Until both sides understand this and remove the influence of the internet from their lives it will continue to produce worse and worse divisions in a populous until it is manifested in actual physical violence,rioting and even death.Some small nations have already disintegrated into chaos and civil war from which they have never recovered leaving untold millions hungry,homeless and doomed to live out their lives as refugees.

the ancient examples you mention had 'propaganda' also. but not a cell phone in each and every persons pocket connected to the internet and its algorithms and 24 hours "news" bias. its a magnitude of difference.
When I asked for examples of tis happening in real life, you responded:


Fake news and manipulated social media played a major role in the toppling of governments in Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, and Kyrgyzstan.


Speaking of fake news, take Kyrgyzstan.

Kyrgyzstan is a nation that has been beset by political and regional strife since the late 1990s -- long before social media even existed, and about a decade before smartphones became widely available. Violent protests, especially in the nation's capital, have sprung up periodically every four or five years since the 1990s, and they are occurring again today.

Sooronbai Jeenbekov, the president of Kyrgyzstan, was democratically elected in 2017, and he remains in power as of this writing. Despite the protests and some acts of violence, the nation has not disintegrated into chaos, nor have the political struggles "left untold millions hungry, homeless, and doomed to live out their lives as refugees."

Your main point was that the internet is somehow responsible for the political problems and strife you outlined, but the plain fact is that nation's have been beset by internal struggles and civil wars that have caused devastating consequence for the populace since the dawn of humanity. It's an historical reality. But please stop blaming the internet. After all, the U.S. fought a bloody four-year civil war that resulted in the deaths of at least 800,000 Americans, and neither the internet nor social media played the slightest role in causing that conflict.





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