KRISTEN'S BOARD
KB - a better class of pervert

News:

Invasion

staci · 8140

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Clitical Thinking

  • Freakishly Strange
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,140
    • Woos/Boos: +431/-17
    • Gender: Male
Reply #160 on: November 04, 2022, 07:58:37 PM
They went from joking about outlawing and bombing Russia to thinking Putin is a great leader who wants to protect his country and Christian values  :facepalm:



Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #161 on: November 05, 2022, 03:19:54 AM
There is money being exchanged under the table. I guarantee you Putin is filling GOP coffers. Putler‘s biggest fantasy now is to get Trump back in the White House. His little sex toy.

America is becoming a bad joke.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #162 on: November 06, 2022, 07:26:24 PM
Not sure if here or the "Republicans" thread would be a better fit


Looks like Republicans and Putin becoming best buddies again.

When this thread got started in the politics forum, I thought that was an inappropriate place to put a thread about a naked war of aggression and genocide. But just like everything else, health, education, welfare, humanity, the alt-right is figuring out a way to politicize the subject. How can we politicize a democratically elected sovereign nation, an ally and soon to be member of NATO, being attacked by a totalitarian dictator? And I think the answer to that question is, the alt-right doesn’t give a shit, because even though they pay lip service to certain things, they know exactly what they’re doing, and they don’t give a shit. If anything they are for it. I saw this cartoon today, so appropriate:


”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #163 on: December 27, 2022, 04:54:23 PM
Most recent summary of Russian losses to date:




”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline Clitical Thinking

  • Freakishly Strange
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,140
    • Woos/Boos: +431/-17
    • Gender: Male
Reply #164 on: December 27, 2022, 04:58:26 PM
102,050 dead Russians  :o

In less than a year  :o :o

...and these were some of the best Russia had to offer  :o :o :o

Now Putin is sending ordinary civilians, even criminals and mentally ill, with old weapons and little to no training  :o :o :o :o

How did he or anyone else think this was a good idea?  :o :o :o :o :o out of  :o :o :o :o :o



Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #165 on: December 27, 2022, 05:30:54 PM
Conventional military wisdom suggests you need a four to one manpower advantage to defeat an enemy on their home turf. Putler does not even have a one to one ratio, and the vast majority of his best equipment has been destroyed or disabled. They are attempting to win this with Soviet era weaponry, and are just throwing warm bodies under the bus. Canon fodder.

It has been a lot of drone footage on the Internet recently, showing Ukrainians dropping grenades and mortar rounds directly into Russian trenches from above. when I saw last week featured a direct hit that blew a Russian infantry man’s arm off. Brutal shit.

Ukraine hit a Russian airbase yesterday, 300 miles from the border. Killing three. Russia claims no aircraft were damaged, but they have moved all of them even farther away from the conflict.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline Clitical Thinking

  • Freakishly Strange
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,140
    • Woos/Boos: +431/-17
    • Gender: Male
Reply #166 on: December 27, 2022, 06:03:49 PM
I saw some drone footage recently where it looked like the Ukrainian forces were actually using the drone to guide their artillery targeting. It was following a group of Russian soldiers, and the artillery was hitting closer and closer. From what I remember, at least two Russians were trying to help a wounded comrade, and two others were walking ahead. The Ukrainians aimed ahead of the former group and got the timing just right to where it was pretty much a direct hit, sending a torso (possibly of the already wounded Russian) flying over the heads of the two Russians in front. Those two eventually made their way to some makeshift bunker or hiding hole, which also took a direct hit from the artillery. I'm pretty sure none of the Russians survived.

To be honest, while of course I don't know how many of the dead Russians didn't want to fight and how many of them took sick pleasure in killing (and possibly torturing) Ukrainians, watching that just made me sad about the whole situation over there (well, sad yet again)

I always knew Putin was a narcissist and he was never someone I idolized (unlike some other Americans, who STILL think he's some kind of hero that's fighting against liberalism and trying to protect Christianity and traditional values) but for some reason I always thought he was a little more clever than this. But, from what I've heard, it sounds like he also built himself an echo chamber, where there's no room for anyone to have an opposing opinion on the wisdom (or lack thereof) of invading Ukraine. Basically, all he wanted to hear was Da!, so all he was told was Da!, and that's how you get +100K dead Russians.



Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #167 on: December 27, 2022, 06:22:48 PM
I derive no pleasure from seeing anyone killed. As I have said before, I have friends and family on both sides of this conflict. Slowly, even my Russian comrades are beginning to recognize this is a horrible thing that has been done.

I think that once Mariupol falls, and Ukraine enters Crimea to liberate it, that will bring everyone to the table. Or the idiot will drop a tactical nuke.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #168 on: January 19, 2023, 06:20:14 PM
No German tanks for Ukraine until America sends its own, Scholz tells U.S. lawmakers

POLITICO By Alexander Ward and Lara Seligman - 4h ago

I hope the US straps it on and sends them.

We’ve got two years to in this war.

We are not getting anything more out of Congress with the current make up in the House. The Fascist loving Communists are all pro-Putin. And I’m talking about the Freedom Caucus.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline Clitical Thinking

  • Freakishly Strange
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,140
    • Woos/Boos: +431/-17
    • Gender: Male
Reply #169 on: January 19, 2023, 06:33:15 PM
If this were happening under a Republican administration, they'd have the biggest Freedom Boner ever. I'd imagine the praise for the President would include: piles of dead Russians, free weapons testing for the US, and more money for defense contractors to develop new technology.

But it's not a Republican administration, so now Ukraine is the most corrupt country ever, President Biden is engaging in money laundering, poor Russia was forced into attacking Ukraine over bully threats of NATO expansion, etc.

El - oh - fucking - el

I think lemmings have better critical thinking skills.



Offline Dudester

  • Deviant
  • ****
    • Posts: 280
    • Woos/Boos: +67/-66
Reply #170 on: January 19, 2023, 08:41:02 PM
In the 1980's, the Reagan administration was completely committed to destruction of the Soviet empire. In 1989, when the Soviet collapse began, we saw that the fruits of the labor did bear fruit. Subsequent administrations, both GOP and Dem, failed to keep up that committment and in certain ways propped up the Russian bear.

Fast forward to 2022. Russia invades Ukraine and we see how that is going for the Russians. At this moment, if Reagan was still alive, he'd be saying: "What are you waiting for? Go for the kill!! Finish them!!"

And as frustrated I am with Biden, I am equally frustrated with Trump and his followers who strongly urge isolationism. We tried isolationism before both world wars and we see how that turned out, the United States of America, literally, cannot afford to embrace isolationism.

I really wish we had strong leadership in DC, not some poopy pants (Biden) Alzheimer patient or some arrogant, immature (Trump) jerk. It is time for someone else.



Offline staci

  • KB Pervert of the Year 2023
  • Freakishly Strange
  • ******
    • Posts: 3,828
    • Woos/Boos: +1835/-28
    • Gender: Female
Reply #171 on: January 19, 2023, 10:27:40 PM
You mean a
WOMAN

??????


one of the originals


Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #172 on: January 19, 2023, 10:35:24 PM
Well everyone mark this down as the day that I agreed with the Dudester.

I will say one thing favorable about Reagan and the neo-cons. And that was their willingness to spend Russia into the ground. Remember Star Wars? A sweet plot to force Russia to squander scarce resources on a nonexistent threat. It was pure brilliance.

We are absolutely driving Russia into the dirt via the war in Ukraine, for a fraction of what that would have cost us otherwise. Ukraine is America‘s best friend for military superiority. Not only are we revealing the soft underbelly of Russia’s total lack of military worthiness, we are getting a chance to test out our weapon systems in the battlefield against a likely future opponent.  The US and all of NATO are the winners. It’s absolute brilliance. I’m a peace lover, and this gives ME a hard on!

Slava Ukraini!!! 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦







« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 05:01:01 PM by Pornhubby »

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline purpleshoes

  • Total freak
  • *****
    • Posts: 977
    • Woos/Boos: +429/-10
Reply #173 on: January 20, 2023, 01:17:06 PM
You mean a
WOMAN

That's a woo for you baby girl!   :emot_bigokay:
(as long as it's not Hillary)



Offline Lois

  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 11,156
    • Woos/Boos: +766/-56
Reply #174 on: January 28, 2023, 11:29:44 PM
You mean a
WOMAN

That's a woo for you baby girl!   :emot_bigokay:
(as long as it's not Hillary)
Actually, Hillary could be exactly what we need to deal with the likes of Putin. 



Offline purpleshoes

  • Total freak
  • *****
    • Posts: 977
    • Woos/Boos: +429/-10
Reply #175 on: January 29, 2023, 01:36:33 PM

My mind's made up, don't go confusing me with facts.  ;D



Offline Clitical Thinking

  • Freakishly Strange
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,140
    • Woos/Boos: +431/-17
    • Gender: Male
Reply #176 on: February 13, 2023, 05:19:45 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russians-fighting-against-homeland-heres-153830647.html

They Are Russians Fighting Against Their Homeland. Here's Why.

Michael Schwirtz

DONBAS REGION, Ukraine — The soldier knelt in the snow, aimed a rocket launcher and fired in the direction of Russian troops positioned about 1 mile away. He was set up at a Ukrainian firing position and looked just like the other Ukrainian troops fighting south of the city of Bakhmut in one of the most brutal theaters of the war.

But he and his comrades are not Ukrainian. They are soldiers in a Ukrainian military unit made up entirely of Russians who are fighting and killing their own countrymen.

They have taken up arms against Russia for a variety of reasons: a sense of moral outrage at their country’s invasion, a desire to defend their adopted homeland of Ukraine or because of a visceral dislike of Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin. And they have earned enough trust from Ukrainian commanders to take their place among the forces viciously fighting the Russian military.

Sign up for The Morning newsletter from the New York Times

“A real Russian man doesn’t engage in such an aggressive war, won’t rape children, kill women and elderly people,” said one Russian fighter with the military call sign Caesar, ticking off atrocities committed by Russian soldiers that motivated him to leave his native St. Petersburg and fight for Ukraine. “That’s why I don’t have remorse. I do my job, and I’ve killed a lot of them.”

Nearly a year into the war, the Free Russia Legion, as the unit is called, has received little attention — in part to protect the soldiers from reprisals by Russia, but also because of reluctance within the Ukrainian military to highlight the efforts of soldiers whose home country has done so much harm to Ukraine. Several hundred of them are concentrated in the area around Bakhmut, in eastern Ukraine, officials said; they are always grouped with their own but are overseen by Ukrainian officers.

In interviews, some Russian soldiers said they were already living in Ukraine when Russian forces invaded last year and felt an obligation to defend their adopted country. Others, often with no military experience, crossed into Ukraine from Russia after the war began, moved by a sense that the Kremlin’s invasion was profoundly unjust.

“We haven’t come here to prove anything,” said one soldier with the call sign Zaza. “We’ve come here to help Ukraine achieve the full withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukrainian territory and the future de-Putinizaton of Russia.”

Fearing retaliation against relatives and themselves, none of the soldiers interviewed agreed to be identified by name or to provide specific details about their biographies. Last week, the Russian prosecutor general’s office filed a suit with the country’s supreme court to have the Legion declared a terrorist organization.

Zaza, a skinny blond who looks barely out of high school, would not even give his age, saying only that he was under 20. After Russian forces invaded, he said, he could not keep his mouth shut. His outspokenness and anti-war posts on social media got him in trouble with his university’s administration, then with police. When officers from Russia’s security service showed up at his front door in the fall, he said, he decided it was time to leave.

He said he walked across the border into Ukraine and signed up to fight.

“At such a young age, it is a little early for me to talk about my political opinions and worldview, because these are just forming now,” he said. “But when your country has been taken over by one bad man, you need to take things into your own hands.”

At the start of the war, Ukrainian law prevented Russian citizens from joining the armed forces. It took until August to finalize legislation that would allow the Legion to legally join the fight, Andriy Yusov, a spokesperson for Ukraine’s military intelligence service, said in a statement.

“There was a large number of Russians who because of their moral principles could not remain indifferent and were searching for a way to enter the ranks of the defenders of Ukraine,” Yusov said, explaining the military’s motivation to create the unit. “All legionnaires have come with a huge desire to stop Putin’s horde and free Russia from dictatorship.”

The group operates under the umbrella of Ukraine’s International Legion, a fighting force that includes units made up of American and British volunteers, as well as Belarusians, Georgians and others.

It is not easy to join, Russian soldiers said. They have had to submit an application and undergo an extensive background check that includes polygraph tests. Only then can they enter basic training. As Russian passport holders, they are inevitably met with distrust. There have been several attempts by Russian spies to infiltrate the Legion, Yusov said.

In a pine forest in the Kyiv region last week, a group of new Russian recruits nearing the end of a three-month basic training course practiced tactical retreats, firing mortars and basic combat medicine. They exemplified the international hodgepodge that has come to define much of Ukraine’s war effort: Russian soldiers trained on a French-made 155 mm mortar and carried American-made M16 rifles.

“It’s better than a Kalashnikov,” one of the soldiers said of the M16. “I’ve fired about 1,000 rounds and haven’t had any problems yet.”

The sounds of small-arms fire and heavy artillery echoed through the forest, and an instructor threw a dummy grenade near a small group of soldiers to gauge how they would react. Most of the soldiers will occupy positions back from the front lines, working in artillery or air reconnaissance units using drones.

Though the instructors were all Ukrainian, all spoke in Russian. In interviews, some of the recruits tried to speak a few words of Ukrainian but quickly switched back to their native language.

“After about one or two months as they’ve settled in, they start to use small phrases like ‘thank you’ or ‘fire,’” said one of the instructors, who declined to provide his name.

The soldiers said they struggled to explain their decision to family back in Russia. Reports of atrocities committed by Russian troops, including the butchering of civilians in the Kyiv suburbs of Bucha and Irpin, are dismissed as foreign propaganda in their homeland.

“They don’t understand the whole truth,” said a 32-year-old soldier with the call sign Miami, who said his parents had urged him to fight on the Russian side. “They’re told that bad people live here, and they believe it. They don’t believe that the second-biggest army in the world could kill regular people.”

Back at the front in eastern Ukraine, the shelling never stops for long. Russian forces have been hammering away at Ukrainian positions, trying to dislodge them around Bakhmut in advance of an expected offensive push to take all of the eastern region known as the Donbas.

On a recent visit to a firing position, the precise location of which The New York Times is withholding for security, the ground rumbled, and artillery shells crisscrossed a clear sky. That day, Russian forces had launched a volley of grad rockets that blanketed the area, wounding several civilians but sparing the soldiers.

“They’re striking everywhere,” a panting Russian soldier said as he took cover in a dugout in a neighborhood of small, snow-covered cottages.

Soldiers in the Legion said that they were continuing to hold the line, but some have already begun to think beyond the immediate battle, and even beyond the war in Ukraine, to what comes next.

“My task is not just to protect the people of Ukraine,” said Caesar, 50. “If I remain alive after this phase and all Ukrainian territory is liberated, I will absolutely continue fighting, with a weapon in my hand, to overthrow this Kremlin regime.”

Caesar, who has earned a reputation as a kind of eccentric sage within the Legion, said he was an avowed Russian nationalist. Yet he nonetheless believes that modern Russia has gone off the rails, particularly when it comes to invading Ukraine, he said.

He was once a member of the Russian Imperial Movement, which the United States has declared a violent extremist group, but said he broke with it in part over its support for Russia’s annexation of the Crimean Peninsula in 2014.

A senior Ukrainian military official involved with overseeing the Legion said that Caesar “had spent a long time searching for a path he felt was ideologically correct,” adding that Ukrainian officials had found no reason to distrust him.

Caesar, who moved his wife and four children to Ukraine over the summer, said he did not believe he was fighting against fellow Russians, but “scoundrels and murderers” who have no nationality.

“I’m sitting before you, an example of a Russian man, and an example of a man that Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky wrote about,” he said. “That’s the kind of man I am. Not them. They aren’t Russian.”

© 2023 The New York Times Company



Offline Pornhubby

  • POY 2013
  • Super Freak
  • Burnt at the stake
  • ******
    • Posts: 6,514
    • Woos/Boos: +1148/-24
  • Ph.D in Perversity a/k/a_ToeinH2O
Reply #177 on: March 09, 2023, 09:22:12 PM

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



Offline xXshepXx

  • Pervert
  • **
    • Posts: 95
    • Woos/Boos: +25/-0
    • Gender: Male
Reply #178 on: March 10, 2023, 03:12:10 PM

I'm not okay, you're not okay. But hey, that's okay


Offline Dudester

  • Deviant
  • ****
    • Posts: 280
    • Woos/Boos: +67/-66
Reply #179 on: March 11, 2023, 04:18:56 AM
The following is a community post by a guy calling himself Adam Something in a place where people post videos. As far as I'm concerned, Adam is the only one giving clear and concise information about what is going on in Ukraine (beating out Fox and the alphabet networks by a country mile). In case you're wondering, Adam is actually a socialist, but he despises Russia.


Let's talk about Ukraine and nuclear war.

Regarding the Russian invasion of Ukraine, a fascinating new (old) line is: if Ukraine loses, there will be peace. If Russia loses , there will be nuclear war. Therefore we should support Russia.

This view has also been expressed recently by the Hungarian chief of Military and Law Enforcement Committee, who also happens to be the deputy president of the far-right Hungarian ruling party.

Interestingly enough, many on the far-left are in perfect alignment on this issue with the far-right. Their reasons generally differ, though there is a definite overlap.

The far-right supports Russia because Russia itself is a far-right, authoritarian regime. Far-right groups around the world tend to show remarkable willingness for international cooperation with each other.

The West is "woke", i.e. degenerate for having women's and LGBT rights. Russia is ultraconservative. Therefore, they want Russia to win.

The far-left supports Russia due to "American Diabolism". This means the US in their view is such an overwhelming, axiomatic evil, that every deed against them automatically becomes good / moral.

The US is the Ultimate Capitalistic Evil. Russia isn't the US. Therefore, they want Russia to win.

There is of course the aforementioned overlap between these groups, namely "tankies". They got their name from their support of Soviets rolling tanks into countries wanting to become independent. These are the "red fascists", i.e. the Stalinists, the "Marxist-Leninists" and the like. This group is made up of 5% East German pensioners, and 95% terminally online Western young adults.

These groups might be different in many ways, but there is one big commonality: they use the risk of nuclear war as a disingenuous fearmongering tool, to try to stop support for Ukraine, in order to achieve their own political goals.

Therefore, I wanted to talk briefly about the risk of nuclear war over Ukraine, and why it's not happening.

First off, notice how both groups treat Russia like some force of nature without any agency. They treat the threat of Russia launching nukes as an automatic consequence rather than a choice the Russian elite has to consciously make. As far as I can see, there are two main sources for this:

1) internalized American exceptionalism
When you believe, consciously or not, that America is exceptional, superior, and is generally above other, "lesser" nations, you'll view other countries as mere pawns on a chessboard. Kyle Kulinski is a good example: right before the Russian invasion, he advocated for turning Eastern European countries into "buffer states". This isn't much different from the "superior" British in their benevolence deciding what's best for their primitive colonial subjects, because they "obviously" cannot be trusted to make decisions on their own.

2) plain concern trolling
Grifters and propagandists deliberately shift the discussion away from Russian agency, to put the onus on the West / US. The easiest way to end the war in Ukraine is for Russia to withdraw. As soon as they did, the war would be over. However, these people never seem to mention this. It's always a laundry list of what the West and Ukraine should do to end the war, otherwise we'll have...

Nuclear war.

The thing is, we won't. Not if Ukraine wins. Russia regularly performed nuclear saber-rattling precisely to scare the Western public, thus try to reduce weapons shipments to Ukraine. It didn't work, plus China and India both told Putin to stop, which he did. This indicates the "seriousness" of his threats.

If Russia was serious about its nuclear threats, how come they haven't dropped, say, a smaller, tactical nuke on the battlefield somewhere as a demonstration? If they're willing to wage nuclear war over Ukraine, surely they would be willing to drop a small, tactical nuke as a warning. But they didn't, because they never planned on nuclear war in the first place.

Russia can't just start a nuclear war by Putin accidentally elbowing a big red button. The Russian nuclear forces would be assuming a very clearly visible offensive posture first. Then, the order of a nuclear strike has to go through a whole chain of command.

But even if Putin orders nuclear war, what then? He dies, along with the entire Russian leadership (and much of the Russian population). The Red Button is essentially a Suicide Button.

Would Putin commit suicide as revenge for losing Ukraine? Putin is ideologically driven to some extent, meaning he believes much of what he says, but he and the Russian elite is far more interested in money, power and Western luxuries. Russia is a mafia state, run by self-centered oligarchs. And self-centered oligarchs don't particularly like dying in a nuclear inferno, as that makes it harder to enjoy their yachts and 30-room chateaus (funded by Russian taxpayers).

In short, no, Putin will not press the Big Red Button over Ukraine.

Paradoxically, a scenario where Ukraine loses would pose a bigger nuclear threat. Once it becomes clear that larger neighbors can get away with territorial conquest and nuclear saber rattling in the 21st century, you'd see regional wars break out all over the place. China would make a move on Taiwan, India and Pakistan would go at each other, and so on. Many potential participants in such regional wars are also nuclear powers. With Ukraine losing and the new precedent set, all over the planet we'd be seeing nukes fly in short order.

Therefore, if we really want to avoid war, conventional or nuclear, we should make sure Ukraine wins this, and takes back as much territory as it can. The coming spring/summer offensive will decide a lot: if Ukraine is successful in liberating the south, they'll have a very good chance for the liberation of Crimea. If Russians stop the Ukrainian offensive, we might just end up with a settlement. At any rate, we shall see.