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Offline msslave

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Reply #5380 on: June 26, 2022, 05:26:45 PM
So sorry Toe. Thoughts are with you. It's a horrible situation with no easy solutions.

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Reply #5381 on: June 26, 2022, 09:45:12 PM
Very depressing day at the ICU. She didn’t even know the name of her hospital, and sent me to the wrong one, 12 miles away. The news is not good. She looks horrible, skinny and frail as a death camp survivor. I got back to the house around midnight last night, and it looks like something out of Horders. Drugs and syringes everywhere. I’m cleaning this up, driving by for another visit, then back to work.

I know you are not a religious man, but would you mind me praying for her? I won't violate your wishes if you don't, but this seems to me like a time for prayer on my end. Not forcing anything on you, but you sir, deserve at least some prayer. Be strong, and I have hope in my heart things will get better for you.

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Reply #5382 on: June 26, 2022, 11:34:55 PM
I have nothing against prayer. I am a non-observant Orthodox Christian, and was a lay reader for many years, reciting the hours of prayer and psalms on innumerable occasions. I believe in a universal life force and interconnectedness of all living things. And I would never suggest withholding prayer, even if the intended beneficiary objects. So long as the prayer is offered in keeping with the publican… Said with humility and not for boastfulness.

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Reply #5383 on: June 27, 2022, 12:04:16 AM
Very depressing day at the ICU. She didn%u2019t even know the name of her hospital, and sent me to the wrong one, 12 miles away. The news is not good. She looks horrible, skinny and frail as a death camp survivor. I got back to the house around midnight last night, and it looks like something out of Horders. Drugs and syringes everywhere. I%u2019m cleaning this up, driving by for another visit, then back to work.
Damn man.  That's a truly horrible thing to go through, for both of you.  It's a cliche the size of Texas, but my heart truly goes out to both of you.  Both of you are part of my KB family, even if I took a time off.

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Reply #5384 on: June 27, 2022, 12:09:19 AM
I have nothing against prayer. I am a non-observant Orthodox Christian, and was a lay reader for many years, reciting the hours of prayer and psalms on innumerable occasions. I believe in a universal life force and interconnectedness of all living things. And I would never suggest withholding prayer, even if the intended beneficiary objects. So long as the prayer is offered in keeping with the publican… Said with humility and not for boastfulness.

you sir are a man among men, Probably as close to the Ubermensche (sp) as described in "Also sprach Zarathustra: Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen" as humanly possible. No asskissing. I mean you went through so much that even Goethe would have made you a character in Faust. Much love and respect to you, I will offer prayers tonight at service.

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Reply #5385 on: June 27, 2022, 03:47:25 AM
I am a Nietzsche fan. Read it all.

The Orthodox have a very nice 2000+ year old tradition. Burial within three days. No embalming. Open casket. The night before burial rights, a vigil is held.

So sitting in a darkened sanctuary at 3 a.m., reciting the psalms over your dead friend’s body until sunrise,  gives you time to reflect on the transitory nature of life.

At the service the following morning, the body is treated as an icon of Christ, and everyone, toddlers to geriatrics, line up to venerate and kiss the deceased. Most typically on the forehead or hands, but the very close will kiss on the lips. There is no fear of death, because we all know that soon it will be our turn.

Appreciate your kind words, and consider you a friend.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



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Reply #5386 on: June 27, 2022, 04:13:12 AM
I am a Nietzsche fan. Read it all.

The Orthodox have a very nice 2000+ year old tradition. Burial within three days. No embalming. Open casket. The night before burial rights, a vigil is held.

So sitting in a darkened sanctuary at 3 a.m., reciting the psalms over your dead friend’s body until sunrise,  gives you time to reflect on the transitory nature of life.

At the service the following morning, the body is treated as an icon of Christ, and everyone, toddlers to geriatrics, line up to venerate and kiss the deceased. Most typically on the forehead or hands, but the very close will kiss on the lips. There is no fear of death, because we all know that soon it will be our turn.

Appreciate your kind words, and consider you a friend.

I consider myself fortunate to have met you online. I lean a little towards Epicurean beliefs. You sound a bit that way too, if I am wrong, correct me. Epicurus said not to fear death, for it will come, and the engraving on his tombstone was awesome, but his followers tombstones sounded like a big eff you to any mourners. Non fui, fui, non-sum, non-curo ("I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care") I consider you a friend as well.

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Reply #5387 on: June 27, 2022, 04:27:15 AM
Strange you would quote Nietzsche, as he could be categorized as a nihilist in the descriptive sense. He believed that there was no longer any real substance to traditional social, political, moral, and religious values. He denied that those values had any objective validity or that they imposed any binding obligations upon us. I’m not that far gone, but I certainly understand the sentiment.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



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Reply #5388 on: June 27, 2022, 04:51:23 AM
Strange you would quote Nietzsche, as he could be categorized as a nihilist in the descriptive sense. He believed that there was no longer any real substance to traditional social, political, moral, and religious values. He denied that those values had any objective validity or that they imposed any binding obligations upon us. I’m not that far gone, but I certainly understand the sentiment.

I also subscribe to some of the teachins of John Calvin, and Thomas Hobbs, when I learned the comic strip calvin and hobbs was based off of the two men. But from my viewpoint while nihilistic, Nietzsche had some views on human morality, like in Beyond Good and Evil, I interpreted it to basically him saying your damned if you do, your damned if you don't. But with his works, you can almost see a pattern that could be woven into a tapestry of my personal philosophy of Fuck it.

Fuck it, is simply put, my notion that you can be a good person, with or without religion, or even societal influence, its just having to over come baser desires, that if left unchecked leads people to doing bad or wrong things. But, also being too righteous is just as toxic, as while you may be viewed as a paragon, there will always be that one moment in life where you will be brought low, and exposed. Not as a fraud, but as a human. Because I have seen and read so much on people who set themselves up, by choice or by others to be "good" and that one moment of understanding would shatter a thousand moments of hiding behind the mask of virtue.

Also a firm believer in "The road to hell is paved in good intentions." That is why I vehemently distrust people who say things like "For the greater good, or The right side of history." As if they were appointed by some high power to be the judge of all that is good and right. And will they be victorious, because last time I checked, history was written by the people who won.

But all in all, Nietzsche fascinated me in high school, and into college, as everyone assumes he was a nazi sympathizer, but in reality, it was his sister, after he went insane who stolen his works and turned it into propaganda.

Just like Voltaire and Alighieri. Voltaire was a biting, critical political satirist, as was Alighieri. The Inerno was a big fuck you towards his rival political faction, the white Guelephs (sp) and everyone he seen during his time fucking shit up. Remove religion from it, and you got a long political hit piece on most major Italian political figures at the time.

I also truly loved "The Prince" by Machiavelli. "A good ruler must be feared by his people rather than loved. For if he is feared, the hard choices he has to make for their survival will be accepted with little resistance, but if he is loved, when he has to make the hard choices, he will face their scorn and betrayal."

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Reply #5389 on: June 27, 2022, 04:59:35 AM
Well it’s always a pleasure to encounter someone who has read the same authors that influenced one’s self. There are fewer and fewer of us in this club every year. And as Nietzsche famously said, “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.”

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



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Reply #5390 on: June 27, 2022, 05:09:16 AM
Well it’s always a pleasure to encounter someone who has read the same authors that influenced one’s self. There are fewer and fewer of us in this club every year. And as Nietzsche famously said, “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.”

Amen, and here is for you:
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” That truly is how I feel when I meet people with differing views, as no one has lived long enough yet to show anyone a right way to do anything.

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Reply #5391 on: June 27, 2022, 05:14:53 AM
PornHubby & Writers Bloque:

What got you interested in Western philosophy? I’ve been an avid reader all my life, but that’s one avenue I never explored, and now it’s too late to go back and fill in the blanks.

You are just a thought that someone, somewhere, somehow feels you should be here.


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Reply #5392 on: June 27, 2022, 05:40:19 AM
PornHubby & Writers Bloque:

What got you interested in Western philosophy? I’ve been an avid reader all my life, but that’s one avenue I never explored, and now it’s too late to go back and fill in the blanks.

Simply to fill in some holes that my faith could not. Sometimes I get wild ideas or thoughts in my head, and when I research them further, I find that there was someone long before I existed who had the same thoughts, and I also like knowing things, but not being a know it all.

The path to knowing everything starts with admitting you know nothing at all. - eastern philosophy.

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Reply #5393 on: June 27, 2022, 07:02:09 AM
The path to knowing everything starts with admitting you know nothing at all. - eastern philosophy.

My interest in oriental religion and philosophy is one reason why I side-stepped the western tradition.

Back in school, one of my teachers asked me why I was interested in oriental mysticism. “You don’t have to go that far afield, you know,” he said. “You might be interested in Vladimir Lossky’s Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church.”

I bought a copy and read it, but still ended up drifting farther and farther east.

You are just a thought that someone, somewhere, somehow feels you should be here.


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Reply #5394 on: June 27, 2022, 02:09:20 PM

Back in school, one of my teachers asked me why I was interested in oriental mysticism. “You don’t have to go that far afield, you know,” he said. “You might be interested in Vladimir Lossky’s Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church.”

I bought a copy and read it, but still ended up drifting farther and farther east.


I spent a year in a Theravadan temple, preparing to be a Buddhist. And in the end, I just couldn’t pull the trigger. So I began a search for the origins and meaning of Christianity, and dug deeper and deeper into early church writings and thought. As I did, the mysticism of the eastern church drew me like a magnet. So I ended up spending a year in preparation for Chrismation as an Orthodox. It is the bridge between the east and the west.

Unfortunately, and especially in the west, the Orthodox Church has become a magnet for sexist, homophobic individuals, who believe the Ancient Faith supports their particular prejudices. I’ve seen so many right wing nuts declare themselves to be “orthodox”,  that I have just distanced myself from the whole thing.


The path to knowing everything starts with admitting you know nothing at all. - eastern philosophy


I gave my son a copy of Peace is Every Step to take to France with him. If you have read, Thich Nhat Hanh‘s Fourteen Precepts of Engaged Buddhism, #2 states:

Quote
Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others’ viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.

Which pretty much sums up my attitude. Maybe I did become Buddhist after all…
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 02:17:57 PM by Pornhubby »

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



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Reply #5395 on: June 27, 2022, 03:26:06 PM

Back in school, one of my teachers asked me why I was interested in oriental mysticism. “You don’t have to go that far afield, you know,” he said. “You might be interested in Vladimir Lossky’s Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church.”

I bought a copy and read it, but still ended up drifting farther and farther east.


I spent a year in a Theravadan temple, preparing to be a Buddhist. And in the end, I just couldn’t pull the trigger. So I began a search for the origins and meaning of Christianity, and dug deeper and deeper into early church writings and thought. As I did, the mysticism of the eastern church drew me like a magnet. So I ended up spending a year in preparation for Chrismation as an Orthodox. It is the bridge between the east and the west.

Unfortunately, and especially in the west, the Orthodox Church has become a magnet for sexist, homophobic individuals, who believe the Ancient Faith supports their particular prejudices. I’ve seen so many right wing nuts declare themselves to be “orthodox”,  that I have just distanced myself from the whole thing.


The path to knowing everything starts with admitting you know nothing at all. - eastern philosophy


I gave my son a copy of Peace is Every Step to take to France with him. If you have read, Thich Nhat Hanh‘s Fourteen Precepts of Engaged Buddhism, #2 states:

Quote
Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others’ viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.

Which pretty much sums up my attitude. Maybe I did become Buddhist after all…

When I had taken Philosophy of world religion in college the professor made it her point to point out that Buddhism and Christianity share similar values, the only main difference between the two was that Buddhism does not require a sacrifice for salvation, just adhere to the 8 fold path.

I devoted myself to reading, and learning, because from an early age I was physically different than everyone around me. I needed a 5th graders desk in kindergarten to sit at, as I was taller and built more than the other kids, which led to much ridicule. "Oh he's just big and dumb"  or my personal favorite, "He might as well quit school and work full time" (As If I could at 6 and up, because its oh so plausible that a small kid can work like an adult, or that the law would have nothing to say about it.) My neighbors when I was growing up, would feed me knowledge i needed through books. Told me I was more than what I looked like, and can be so much more than a meat brick.)

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Reply #5396 on: June 27, 2022, 03:48:33 PM

When I had taken Philosophy of world religion in college the professor made it her point to point out that Buddhism and Christianity share similar values, the only main difference between the two was that Buddhism does not require a sacrifice for salvation, just adhere to the 8 fold path.


The “Substitutionary Atonement” theory, and particularly Christ dying for our sins as a sacrifice, really didn’t gain ground until the 14th Century, then took off with the Protestant reformation. The early church teachings were that Christ died to defeat death, so that man would not have to.  Not as a sacrifice, but as a savior.

Orthodoxy does not preach being saved by grace, but rather seeking Theosis (unity with God) that is very similar to enlightenment. And it is a path, not an event. So no easy “sinner’s prayer” or “once saved always saved.” Bummer. You mean I need to work on this?

Finally, and most disturbing to western adherents, hell is not a place, it is merely separation from God. And that is a choice made by the individual, not the Creator.

Mind blowing stuff. When I was a kid, they told us in Sunday school about the Book of Acts. Then something called the “Dark Ages.“ Then Martin Luther nailing his treatise on the doors of the church in 1517.  So roughly 75% of the church’s history was ignored. I was so amazed to learn about early teachings and writings of the saints that are largely forgotten or ignored. Always a treat to uncover another volume for analysis and reflection.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



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Reply #5397 on: June 27, 2022, 04:51:39 PM

When I had taken Philosophy of world religion in college the professor made it her point to point out that Buddhism and Christianity share similar values, the only main difference between the two was that Buddhism does not require a sacrifice for salvation, just adhere to the 8 fold path.


The “Substitutionary Atonement” theory, and particularly Christ dying for our sins as a sacrifice, really didn’t gain ground until the 14th Century, then took off with the Protestant reformation. The early church teachings were that Christ died to defeat death, so that man would not have to.  Not as a sacrifice, but as a savior.

Orthodoxy does not preach being saved by grace, but rather seeking Theosis (unity with God) that is very similar to enlightenment. And it is a path, not an event. So no easy “sinner’s prayer” or “once saved always saved.” Bummer. You mean I need to work on this?

Finally, and most disturbing to western adherents, hell is not a place, it is merely separation from God. And that is a choice made by the individual, not the Creator.

Mind blowing stuff. When I was a kid, they told us in Sunday school about the Book of Acts. Then something called the “Dark Ages.“ Then Martin Luther nailing his treatise on the doors of the church in 1517.  So roughly 75% of the church’s history was ignored. I was so amazed to learn about early teachings and writings of the saints that are largely forgotten or ignored. Always a treat to uncover another volume for analysis and reflection.

I personally do not think you need to work on anything, as your path is wholly your own to take. I merely commented on what I was taught because I found it interesting. You sir should be a scholar.

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Reply #5398 on: June 27, 2022, 05:25:42 PM
I come here to enjoy intelligent conversations with intelligent individuals, and you sir, are one of them. Namaste.

”You can be mad as a mad dog at the way things went.  You can swear and curse the fates.  But when it comes to the end, you have to let go.” — The Curious Case of Benjamin Button



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Reply #5399 on: June 27, 2022, 06:13:05 PM
I come here to enjoy intelligent conversations with intelligent individuals, and you sir, are one of them. Namaste.

Thank you very much, I hope your day goes smoothly.

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